Gamifying the Deal with Ed Mathews

Josh (00:00:02) - Hey. Good day everybody. Welcome to the deal. Scout. This show we're going to talk about deals and we're going to talk about systematic sales and maybe a approach that you might not have been considering and how to get in the game. So with that, let's bring on Mr. Ed to have a conversation with us and learn more. So Ed, welcome to the show man. Thanks, Josh. Good to see you. How are you? Good to see you. I'm freaking awesome man. Now you are up in Connecticut. And what do you do in Connecticut? So we run Carteret Capital and I'm the president at Matthews. And the you know, the whole idea here, the the the whole idea is we buy crappy apartment buildings from landlords who aren't very good at their jobs, and we make them clean and safe, and then we make them beautiful so that people are proud to live there and live there a long time, which is good business for us. And I get to sleep well at night, so that's what we do.

Josh (00:00:51) - Yeah. Super awesome. When you're buying these apartment buildings, like where are you guys looking geographically? Where do you buy? So we buy in Connecticut, actually. And we've got a pretty well defined market. I mean, it changes a little bit here and there, but we've basically identified 1208 properties that someday we'd like to own in the state of Connecticut. And we are relentless in terms of staying and getting in front of and staying in front of the people that own the relationships to those buildings, whether it's brokers, wholesalers, or the building owners themselves, so that when the time comes to sell, we're an obvious first phone call.

Ed (00:01:29) - Wow. Super cool. Now, before we hit record, we were in the green room and we were chatting and and you know, you're like, I said.

Josh (00:01:36) - What do you what do salespeople.

Ed (00:01:38) - What do deal makers need to hear? And you said, like consistency.

Josh (00:01:43) - Is so.

Ed (00:01:44) - Vital, like share, share with the audience what you and I were talking about.

Josh (00:01:48) - Yeah. So I, I work with a whole bunch of kind of new and aspiring investors and some experienced ones. And invariably, you know, when we talk about outbound marketing, so do the front end first, right? Outbound marketing, you know, sorry I told you was the one that I hear very consistently, which is I tried direct mail and it didn't work. And and I you know, my first question is, okay, well, walk me through that. How many did you send? Well, I sent 4000. Okay. How many times did you send them once. And it didn't work. So I didn't do it again. Okay. That's your problem because we live here at Clark Street by the law of seven touches. Right. And so what that means is that I need to if I'm trying to meet Josh because he's a heavy broker that has relationships with a bunch of building owners that I'd like to meet. The way that I do that is I, you know, we use email, we use text messages, we use speaking engagements, we use webinars, we use direct mail, we use invites to special events.

Josh (00:02:57) - We use congratulations cards when they when they publicize a good deal, we, you know, we send them baby clothes when we find out on Facebook that they or their or their spouse had a baby. You know, we are touching them all the time. And the key is to add value, right? It's not hey, can you introduce me to this guy? Because that's what's in it for me. It's hey, how can I serve you? How can I make your life a little easier, a little better? You know, I found this article. I read this book and thought it was. I thought of you immediately. And here it is. You know, hey, I wrote this article, and I thought it might make sense for you and maybe some of your clients. Hey, I recorded this video. Hey, I, you know, I'm going to this event. Would you like. And I've got a I've got a plus one. Would you like to go with me? You know, whatever it takes to.

Josh (00:03:48) - I've even I fully believe in, in giving to charity. But sometimes I'm a little strategic with it. I've, I've actually volunteered and to for charities knowing that the person I want to meet is, you know, going to be at that event. Um, you know, whatever it takes to touch them and add value on a very regular basis at least seven times, and in most cases until you tell me to go away. And even then I just dial it back.

Ed (00:04:18) - Where did you where did you gather this level of relentless approach for, for deals like first, how many deals have you guys done? Give, give an idea of like give an idea of what you guys have accomplished.

Josh (00:04:31) - 110 somewhere in there. I mean, we've done we've done a bunch of deals, maybe more. I actually don't count, but it's it's probably in the low hundreds. If I had to guess. Um. Where I learned this was a couple different places. But over the span of my previous career in corporate Silicon Valley technology, sales and marketing type roles over about a 24 year period, I had a handful of really smart, really accomplished sales and marketing executives that taught me how to do it right.

Josh (00:05:05) - And so I've taken what we learned, what I learned in working for those companies and have translated it basically to our real estate business. Yeah.

Ed (00:05:16) - Super cool. There has to be a level of confidence in mission when approaching someone seven times or plus or something like that, because otherwise you're going to be like that story you shared. I sent a direct mail, which is, you know, like there's no risk reward. You know, like it's like, here's a here's a mail. Good luck. Right. Hopefully something comes back. But you're going to events, you're volunteering, you're surrounding yourself. Where do you gather that confidence after. Five tries after six tries because, you know, it's a law of seven. How do you keep that confidence going?

Josh (00:05:50) - So part of it is I know the system works. So, you know, persevering is not as hard when I've already done it. You know, many, many, many dozens of times effectively. And it's way more than that. Um, the other part of it is that I actually legitimately believe I can help them.

Josh (00:06:09) - So it's not a matter I don't approach. I come from a I hate this, I hate this term because it's overused, but I do come from a place of abundance, right? I'm here to serve them. And I know that when I serve them well and serve them enough, we will become friends, right? Like actual friends, like, hey, let's go out to dinner. Our kids know each other. Friends. Right? And from there, it you know, we grow in trust. And at some point, I earn the right to do business with them. And sometimes I don't. We just stay friends and that's okay too. But the the you know, that's part of it is that I fundamentally enter into these relationships looking to help and solve problems for them.

Ed (00:06:54) - Earning the right to do business with them by developing a relationship and serving them. You said something that really like, like made me go, I wonder what he means behind this. You said, okay, I really hate saying this.

Ed (00:07:07) - This thing of abundance mindset. Like you're like, oh, right. Is it because people overplay it too much.

Josh (00:07:13) - Because there's a.

Ed (00:07:13) - False teaching? Like.

Josh (00:07:15) - I don't think it's a false. Yeah, it's a great question. I don't think it's a false teaching. I think I think it's used a lot. And in a lot of cases it's used self for self-aggrandizement. And it's not, you know, it's legitimately like, you know, when somebody gets a deal that I didn't get, I'm legitimately happy for him because it's a big world out there. And that property five years from now will be for sale again. And I'll buy it then it's okay. Right? And I hope they make a ton of money, and I hope they make a ton of improvements, because it's going to leave me. It'll leave me less things to do when I buy it, which is great.

Ed (00:07:49) - See, that's a cool way of thinking things. Do you parlay that thought into other areas of your life? And how?

Josh (00:07:55) - I try to be of service in everything I do is one of the initial pieces of advice that I got from more than one person, but for some reason it resonates in my in my ear.

Josh (00:08:08) - Jimmy Iovine, who the record producer. One of the things that I mean, he was nobody when he started working with, you know, Dr. Dre and all those other people. And, um, you know, one of the things that that he gets asked a lot is, how the heck did you get into that room? And his simple answer was, I was of service. I helped them. And, you know, I've had mentors. I've had both personal and professional mentors who have given me nearly the same advice many times over my career. And it's, you know, I think if you're listening to this program and you're the takeaway, um, at least one of the takeaways should be that people don't care about your deal until they understand how much you care about their situation. Right. And, you know, even as a as a young salesman, I vividly remember this. His name was Ed May, and he's a great guy and a great executive. And I was sitting there with one of my mentors, Pete Black.

Josh (00:09:12) - We were in Florida and it was the end of the quarter. It was about this time of year, and I was pushing him hard because I needed the deal that was on the table. And I kept pushing and pushing and asking questions. And, you know, I'm more of an interrogator than a, hey, I need this kind of guy. But, you know, what about this? What about this? What about this? Right? And he finally turned to me and goes, Ed, I don't give a crap about your deal. I'm going to do what I've got to do here. And and then Pete looked at me and went, calm down. And, you know, and and that stuck with me. I mean, that happened. God happened 20 years ago. Yeah. And but but it it it drove home for me that, you know, when I'm on Facebook or YouTube or standing in front of a crowd or helping someone with a situation, whether it's real estate or marketing or we're on a softball field, right.

Josh (00:10:07) - Um, you know, I think my role in life is to serve and to help. And because I know deep down inside and it's how I've succeeded almost every time is when I help enough, you know, still Zig Ziglar thing, when I help enough people get where they want to go, they in turn almost always help me get where I want to go, almost always. And so, yeah, I mean, that's kind of the way I live my life.

Ed (00:10:30) - Can you say it in Zig Ziglar accent?

Josh (00:10:34) - Uh, no, I cannot.

Ed (00:10:36) - Oh, I grew up with good.

Josh (00:10:37) - But it won't sound like a.

Ed (00:10:38) - Yeah, I grew up with he used to call it automobile university. You know, like with his his Texas. His accent and I would flip over the cassette. Yeah, it's so powerful. What about the times? All right, so this happened to me a few times, right? I went all in on a relationship and served and helped and and poured in and got burnt.

Ed (00:10:58) - Hundreds of grands, thousands. Lots, lots of money. And it hurt. And I go walk away going, you know, like that sucked. Screw that person. Right. You know, like, how do you walk away from something like that, a failure and still have an abundance and giving mindset?

Josh (00:11:11) - I don't believe in failure. I don't believe in mistakes. I believe in the fact that, you know, hell, Josh, I screw up five times a day at least, right? And my hope is I can fix 1 or 2 of them by the end of the day. Right? And so but the thing is, is that I learn from I get smarter and, you know, the culture here with with our team here, it's I don't care about mistakes. I care that you learn from them. That's it. Period. End of story. Don't make them twice because I'm going to be pissed the second time. But but the fact is, is that, you know, if you learn, you know, it's the the Thomas Edison thing.

Josh (00:11:46) - You know, we spent 2000 ways to to not make a light bulb. Right. And until he did and you know, part of that and you to kind of finish off the question you asked a couple of times ago, I gamify everything too, right? So if if I know that it takes me. Ten phone calls, among other things, but ten phone calls to get somebody to actually return my call. Then the know or the dial tone or the the voicemail is just one step closer to actually get in front of that human being. And that's that's fine. Um, to answer your question about getting screwed. Um, part of it is such is life. I mean, you know, I'm Irish, right? So, you know, it's like the old what's the term, Irish Alzheimer, right? You forget everything except the grudges and the but the you know, the fact is, is that I, um, you know, I, I, I chalk it up to a lesson.

Josh (00:12:50) - I try to be, I try to get perspective out of it. I try, you know, after I'm angry and emotional and all that stuff. Um, you know, I try really hard to kind of gain perspective and figure out, okay, first off, how can I never do that again? Right.

Ed (00:13:07) - And and don't do that again.

Josh (00:13:09) - Oh yeah. And I've had those relationships. You know, I've, I've had one where I've lost six figures on a, on a relationship I thought was pretty solid. And it turns out I was the only solid one in the relationship. But, you know, what are you going to do? Um, that, you know, tells me that I need to vet the people that I let into my life a little more than I was. Right? So at 30 or 20 9 or 30, um, it was a lot easier to get me on the phone and get me to sit down and spend time and all that with you. Now, I'm 54 and it's, you know, I'm still a cheap date.

Josh (00:13:45) - I'll meet with just about anybody for a cup of coffee, but I. And I'll even buy the coffee. But the, you know, I'm, I'm pretty careful about the next step. Right. Yeah. And and so yeah.

Ed (00:13:59) - Let me ask this question on that six figure failed relationship. Been there. Yeah. Sucks. Right. But when that happens and then you see that person again how do you how do you move forward in a positive way. Because I'll tell you the energy that happens from these burnt deals sometimes for me gets in the way of new creation and new opportunities. So I have to work really hard on releasing and forgiving, on looking forward. How do you do it?

Josh (00:14:27) - Um, I didn't with that one in particular. I was angry for a year and the I don't know that I ever saw that partner again, like directly other than like online or something like that. But I gave him rent free space in my head for a year, and I finally threw. Time and a little perspective and a whole bunch of beating myself up and probably a couple of beers.

Josh (00:15:00) - I, you know, I finally got to the point where I'm like, I'm done giving this guy energy. I'm done. I'm time to move on. Let's go. And it was, you know, a clean break at that point. Now, having gone through that and gone through not as severe, but similar situations where somebody lets you down, I get to that place of, I'm not going to let you live rent free in my head, like very, very quickly, like, okay, let's, let's, let's, um, you know, let's feel this for 15, 20 minutes. Okay? Now it's time to move on. Let's go. And it's that's it. Right. And I, you know, I, I, um, I fundamentally believe that if, if I'm on a path.

Josh (00:15:51) - I.

Josh (00:15:51) - Am relentless. And so even if I screw up and let somebody in the, in the house, that really shouldn't be in the house, um, as long as we get them out in a timely fashion, I'm staying on the track and nothing's going to stop me.

Josh (00:16:05) - So.

Ed (00:16:06) - So cool. I appreciate you sharing that because, I mean, we've talked about deals all day long a year with that crap going on in your head that affects business, that affects relationships, that affects new partnerships, new joint ventures, marriages, kids to it. That negativity in the brain and the heart will totally, like, just constantly tweak the business.

Josh (00:16:29) - I was, I was if if my wife was here, she would tell you I was no fun for that year. None. Zero.

Ed (00:16:35) - This guy sucked for full year.

Josh (00:16:36) - This guy who did I marry? What? Yeah. No, it was awful. Yeah.

Ed (00:16:41) - Well, I'm proud of you for for for recognizing that and moving forward. And we've got to talk about these things because the deal maker is based on their story, their experience, what they're doing, what they're moving forward. And I find that, like, if you don't do these things as a deal maker, you're going to keep on screwing up the future deals, the future opportunity.

Ed (00:17:02) - You're going to self-sabotage it.

Josh (00:17:03) - Yep, 100%.

Ed (00:17:05) - What was the hardest lesson you learned as a deal maker? Right? You've been in Silicon Valley tech startups, all sorts of things. You know, you were at the dinner with Pete and and Ed and they're like, you know, shut your mouth. You know, like, stop. Yeah. If you could look at your whole experience and you go, you know what, Josh? The greatest thing that I learned in my dealmaking journey is this.

Josh (00:17:26) - So I. I really enjoy playing poker. And I know that when I don't care if I win or lose that pot, I'm really effective. Like, I'm really hard to beat because I just don't care. There's no tells. It's just, you know, and hopefully I've got a hand, but sometimes I don't. And I found that in marketing, you know, in terms of creating awareness for our company and ultimately in terms of meeting people, you know, not everyone's going to be a fit.

Josh (00:17:59) - Right. And so I'm going to hear no. And, you know, again, I'll go back to Pete Black. Pete Black also told me, you know, yes is the best answer, but no is the second best answer. Maybe. Is death right? Yeah. I'm I'm cool with. No. If we're not a fit, that's fine. It's the maybe. And I continue to spend time and time and time with you and you, you know, string me along. Yeah. Man up. Tell me. No. It's okay. I won't take it personal. You're not saying no to me. You're saying no to my offer, and that's, you know, because then it the next the next conversation is, well, how can I improve? Like, what can I do to get better? You know, sales hats off, guys. I just want to know, you know, the criteria you're using to evaluate me versus another deal that you're going to do. Um, why them and and what did I what can I do differently next time? And, you know, occasionally people are responsive to that.

Josh (00:18:51) - And a lot of times they're like, yeah, we're not going to talk about that. And that's fine. But it never hurts to ask. So I think I think that's a big piece of it is it's a, you know, it's a numbers game and I'm going to be a fit. I'm going to be a fit with some people and not with others and just human beings. That's that's the way it is.

Ed (00:19:12) - You're really having fun with this business, aren't you?

Josh (00:19:14) - I am having a blast, man. This is the most fun I've ever had with clothes on.

Josh (00:19:20) - Yeah. Keep your.

Ed (00:19:22) - Clothes on.

Josh (00:19:22) - Ed, please. Please, please.

Ed (00:19:24) - It's not that kind of show.

Josh (00:19:25) - I love it, you know? I mean, I, I think we're doing a lot of good, right? And, you know, from a, from a family perspective, you know, it's setting our family up. My family up to, to never have to worry about a lot of things going forward.

Josh (00:19:39) - And if it keeps going the way it's going, my kids and grandkids won't have to either. And that's that's awesome. But the other part of it is, man, I'm I just really enjoy, uh, when, you know, I love it. I love surpassing somebody's expectations, whether that's an investor who's working with us or it's a it's a resident. Right. You know, one of the one of the most gratifying things is a teeny tiny thing in my world. But in my brain, it's it's become really big. And that is, you know, when I told you that we buy crappy apartment buildings from landlords who basically suck at their jobs, that's a broken relationship between the property owner and the resident. And, you know, when I, I try to do this myself as much as possible, but I knock, knock, knock on every door when we buy a property. And I introduced myself and. You know, I've got colleagues that are like, what are you doing? Why would you.

Josh (00:20:36) - Why would you ever let them know that you exist? And my you know, my answer is because they're my customers and I need them to continue to be satisfied and better still, happy and proud of the home that we're providing so that they stay a really long time. Because when they stay, that is a lease up I don't have to pay for. That is a turnover I really don't have to pay for. You know, we we fix stuff. But I'm going in and, you know, brand new kitchens, brand new bathrooms, brand new flooring. You know, it costs a lot of money to do it. And, you know, if if I get a really cool couple who live there for four years and then on the fifth year they go buy a house. If I, you know, deferring that 15 or $20,000 expense for that property is huge and it makes us a lot more profitable, which makes our investors a lot happier. And, you know, in turn makes me happy.

Josh (00:21:34) - So yeah. Yeah, I am having fun.

Ed (00:21:37) - Super cool. You you spoke before about sourcing deals. Now, I know you're relentless on marketing and direct mail and knocking on doors and volunteering and, you know, like you're aggressive, right? You're going for it because you've got a mission, right? You're thinking of your grandkids. You got 100 year plan and you're thinking about your yeah, you're thinking about your grandkids.

Josh (00:21:57) - Yep.

Ed (00:21:58) - Basically, when it comes to the the sourcing of deals, what's one thing that you guys have like stumbled upon that you're like, oh my gosh, I wish I would have known this ten years ago.

Josh (00:22:09) - Um, I think it so. Well, it's a really good question because there's a lot of ways to answer that. The, you know, in terms of the most successful ways that we get deals done is when we solve a problem. Right. And so and it's something that I kind of move in and out of, and I don't know why I do it, but when I'm working with either a broker or a, you know, a direct seller, um.

Josh (00:22:40) - I'm trying really hard, you know? One of the initial questions I ask is, hey, why are you selling? Right. And I get some BBS. Answer because they're selling for a reason, right? If this was an ATM machine, they'd never sell it. So something's wrong. And it's either something's wrong in their life or something's wrong in that business. And I'm trying I'm not trying to get into their business, but I am trying to understand, okay? You know, every property has a curveball, and I'm trying to figure out how big a curveball this is going to be. And, you know, so I'm trying to understand what's the problem we're trying to solve here. Is it a pain in the neck tenant. Is it is it the fact that you are out of cash and you can't support the building anymore? Is it you're retiring and you just want to you want to go hit golf balls for a living. And so if I can get to that point, I can create a model that that addresses that issue and is good for us to write.

Josh (00:23:32) - Like, you know, I mean, it's the fundamental foundation of seller financing, for instance, right? Is is not hey, you know, I'm going to buy your building, but you're going to carry the note for the next five years and I'm going to pay you, you know, 5% interest and you're going to be happy with that. No, that's not that's not what we're trying to do. Right. What we're trying to do is okay, well, when you get that money, you know, I'm just curious, what are you going to do with it? Right? I'm going to I'm going to exchange it into another deal. I'm going to go finally pay off my beach house. And my wife and I are going to go to Myrtle Beach and hit golf balls for a living. Okay. Well, how much do you need in order to make that happen? Okay, well, the buildings for, hypothetically, the building's $1 million, and he's like, I need 250 grand. Okay, would you finance the rest of it? Yes, I would, okay, done.

Josh (00:24:20) - Let's do it. And, you know, it's that's it's. I'd love to tell you that it's, you know, I'm playing three dimensional chess and I'm out thinking everybody in the room, and I'm not. I'm just solving a problem. Yeah. And sometimes I'm successful and sometimes I'm not. And again, it's a numbers game. I'm okay with that. Yeah.

Ed (00:24:41) - How many doors have you guys do you guys have under management?

Josh (00:24:45) - Uh, just short of 150 at this point. And then we flipped. Probably another, I don't know, 100, 110. No, that's probably not true. Probably 75 properties.

Ed (00:24:56) - Wow. Awesome. 75 properties. Yeah. Oh, wow. Cool. Wow. You guys are like single family homes. Single family homes. Oh, yeah. Now you guys are currently focused on apartment multifamily, right?

Josh (00:25:07) - Okay. Yeah. So I started off in the flipping business. I used flipping to basically create capital to go buy.

Ed (00:25:13) - Apartment buildings are cool out of all the asset classes, like we're walking into 2024 soon.

Ed (00:25:20) - Out of all the asset classes, which one do you think might have the best resiliency of whatever might happen in the marketplace? What are you most excited about? What are you most scared about?

Josh (00:25:30) - Um, so I am a fundamental believer in, in multifamily class B, class C type multifamily. So, you know, firmly planted in the middle class, you know, middle class to working class folks. And the reason being is, you know, it's Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Shelter is a pretty big deal in human beings life. And the fact that I can deliver a home that is well appointed, well cared for, clean and safe at a really economically good price, that's also good for us. Um, you know, I think that that business does not have a an end date, right? Um, you know, you look at like 2000 perfect example. You look at 2008 and the Great Recession and and that whole debacle and, you know, literally the the world economy is teetering on 1000 foot cliff.

Josh (00:26:30) - Multifamily. Did the values come down? You bet. But did it crash like the house, like the residential housing market? Nope. Did not. It's steady along in most markets, especially class C and and B, um, you know, it basically stayed more or less within a range of being just fine. And did people get over their skis on, on financing and leveraging too much and all that? Absolutely. And that absolutely happened in the multifamily world. But if you had bought right in 2006.

Josh (00:27:07) - You.

Josh (00:27:07) - Still own that building in 2012 and you were thriving, right? Yeah. And so, you know, that is really important. The you know, someone asked me a similar question a couple couple months ago. I was in like a Q&A session and they said, you know, how has your investing philosophy changed? I started in 2011 to 2000, you know, today, 23, you know, how has it changed? And I, I thought about it for a second. I'm like, it hasn't we by cash flowing properties that need work, we fix them, we make them beautiful.

Josh (00:27:41) - We make them clean and safe. We add value. We treat the residents with respect. So they and they and we serve them. So they stay a long time. And those buildings become really valuable. And at some point we sell it and trade up to a bigger one. That's the game, right? And I've done that. Since 2011. Yeah. You know, the way we acquire, the way we dispose of properties, that has changed a little bit in that, you know, back back in the day, I was buying a mostly from brokers. These days I'm buying a mostly from some brokers but also directly from, from property owners. And that'll change. That won't change. The thing I'm most concerned about is the fact that the, the, the, the multifamily business overall is way over leveraged. And there are people out there companies, and we're starting to see it in the paper. If you watch the Wall Street Journal, you'll see one of these pop up a couple times a month where a syndicator has bought a bought a huge property.

Josh (00:28:49) - They had 3% debt on it, and now that their adjustable rate is running out, they're trying to refi it. And unfortunately, that rate is now seven six, seven 8% and the building's no longer cash flow. And so they've got a they have a choice. They can turn to their investors and say, hey, we need 3 million bucks to make this deal work. Or they hand the keys back to the bank and walk away. And that is both terrifying and gratifying. The gratification part is because there's a whole bunch of people out there who are super conservative and will be there to, you know, to pick up the pieces and buy those buildings. But. But that's going to hurt. That's going to hurt everybody. It's going to hurt. So yeah, you know, frankly, I've been waiting for it to happen for the better part of 18 months now and it still hasn't really come to fruition. I hope it doesn't. I hope they figure it out. But, you know, um, Moody's had a presentation back and I think January of this year where they said 23 ish percent of the mortgages that were coming up for repricing in 24 and 25 couldn't be revised.

Ed (00:29:59) - So they're they're going to have to consider pushing that those times out or changing the terms on that. Otherwise banks are going to get a bunch of notes back. And I don't know if they're ready for that.

Josh (00:30:10) - Again, I am seeing that. I'm seeing a lot of loan modification, which is a good thing.

Ed (00:30:14) - Yeah, yeah. Oh man. So as you're going through this said, let's play a game. All right. So we're we're playing poker and I want you to teach me. Right. You're mentoring me and we're playing poker. And you're like, all right, Josh, here's one tip that you got to know about poker. Are we talking Texas Hold'em? Sure. Okay. All right, Josh, here's a tip. What's your tip on playing poker?

Josh (00:30:32) - You got to know the math. And it's complex. You know, you can read human beings and that's part of it. But the real part of it is understanding the odds. When you see cards on the table and you know, you're, for all intents and purposes, your card counting, but you're really not.

Josh (00:30:49) - But, you know, I'm I'm dealing with the probability of, okay, I know that, you know, there is a I'm holding two tens and there's a eight, seven, five, three, four on the table. You know, what are my odds that anybody else has a better hand? Frankly, percentage wise, odds are pretty good. So I'm dumping that hand. And, you know, most people would say you got two. You had a high pair. No I didn't. That guy has kings. Right. And so that's where the human element of it is, is you're looking for the once I understand the math and go, okay, my odds of winning this I've got three people in the game and my odds are winning this are less than 30%. I'm out right. Um, because, you know, pretty good chance. Unless I'm holding, you know. The nuts, right? Unless I'm holding something that's unbeatable, like a straight flush or something. Yeah. It comes down to math, and, well, even that comes down to math.

Josh (00:31:45) - That's just 100%. But but that's, you know, it's math first and then human being second.

Ed (00:31:51) - Right? Two seven spread best hand in the poker. Right?

Josh (00:31:55) - I've lost a lot of money on A27.

Ed (00:31:58) - Yeah. So as, as you're, you're going through this and there's someone in the audience who is looking to, you know, maybe help, you know, locate a deal with you or buy a deal with you, or sell maybe an apartment complex. What's a good place for people to connect with you and do a deal?

Josh (00:32:14) - So best places to email me at Ed at Clark, you can get on our website at Clark St. We are Clark Street Capital at on everything. Um, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Twitter. I'm also very active. You know, I'm an old guy, so I get I was smart enough to to sign on to all of these social media. So I'm Ed Matthews pretty much everywhere, or Ed Matthews for, excuse me, pretty much everywhere.

Josh (00:32:45) - And mainly because I joined Facebook when there were 37 people on it. So it's it's yeah. So those are probably the easiest ways. The other way to reach me is through our podcast, Real Estate Underground. And that is a new episode every Tuesday afternoon at noon eastern. And we we interview really smart, really successful real estate investors. And occasionally we bring in folks from different asset classes just to kind of see what the market's like out there. And, and it's a lot of fun.

Ed (00:33:20) - The Real Estate Underground, that's your podcast show. So everybody listening into this podcast show, if you like real estate and investing and and learning some of these tactics that ed sharing head on over and find real Estate Underground podcast, download, subscribe, give a raving review and share it with your buddies. Right? Like that's podcasters. That's such a great feeling when that happens. Ed, as we wrap up this interview, there's probably a question that you're like, Joshua was right in front of you as another podcast of podcaster, and you didn't ask this, where did I screw up, dude?

Josh (00:33:52) - Um, so, you know, it's I asked the almost the exact same question when I'm, when I'm working with somebody, I'm like, what question should I have? I asked that I didn't ask, and I love watching their eyes roll like my eyes are rolling right now.

Josh (00:34:06) - Um, you know, I think that the, you know, I think that the, the real estate business, there's so many different ways to benefit and get in and, you know, there are so many asset classes. There are so many ways to participate actively and passively. I mean, I could talk for days about the, you know, the whole idea of being an active investor like me, you know, somebody that actually physically manages a property or a passive investor who does something else for a living but wants to get into real estate but doesn't want to be a landlord. Um, you know, there's pros and cons to all of it, and I can, like I said, I can talk for days about that. And that was certainly something we could have talked about. But yeah.

Ed (00:34:52) - And if they want that, they could head on over to your show, listen to more. Right?

Josh (00:34:56) - Right.

Ed (00:34:57) - Cool. And thanks for being on the show. People in the audience dealmakers as always, reach out to our guests, say thanks.

Ed (00:35:03) - Like tell them you guys were awesome on on the podcast show and find a way to connect with them and do a deal. That's a mission and purpose of the show. And if you have a deal that you'd like to talk about here on the deal, scout head on over to the deal Scout. Com fill out a quick form, maybe get you on the show next. Till then, we'll talk to you all on the next episode. Bye everyone.