Aug. 23, 2022

Investing In Apps with Aj Aluthwala


AJ Aluthwala is the Co-Founder and CEO of KallistoArt Online Marketing, a 14-year-old company specializing in online advertising. KallistoArt creates high-conversion websites for small businesses, as well as produces top search engine ranking results for companies of all sizes through local or nation-wide campaigns. The company has created over 40 mobile apps for entities in North America and around the world. Today AJ talks to us about investing in apps!

Transcript

Josh
 Good day, fellow dealmakers. Welcome to the deal scout. Now, if you're a dealmaker and investor and you're buying stuff and you're in the technology world, you probably have used a smartphone and you probably has views some app in your life. We're going to have a conversation with a guy who's built a crazy amount of apps and who invest in them too. We're going to hear some, the good, the bad, the, what to invest in, how to look at apps, especially if you're a VC group looking to make investment decisions. You probably want to pay attention because he's going to give you some insights on what to look for. With that AAJ from Tampa, Florida, welcome to the show. 


 Aj
 Thank you, Josh. That's family. 


 Josh
 Yeah. So I've been an entrepreneur. The first app that I was thinking of building was in 2012, it was a fitness technology app. I completely fell on my face, but it got me into venture capital and all sorts of cool opportunities. But apps have been around for awhile. How long have you been in the app building space? 


 Aj
 We are been in that space for more than 10 years now. 


 Josh
 Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Why don't you give us a little idea about who is a J. 


 Aj
 Yeah, absolutely. I would describe myself as a, a technology strategist, whether it's just online marketing or whether it's working on apps, whether it's launching an app or rebranding a piece of software, you can differently talk to me about, making sure that you are getting the biggest bang for your buck. We obviously have a team who can do the job for us. Well, 


 Josh
 Okay. You're going to have to give us an idea of how you got into this game, right. Give us an idea of your entrepreneurial journey. 


 Aj
 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Around 16 years ago, we started in just a online marketing company. We were just cranking out websites and that's what we did all day long. We saw the opportunity where, or saw the bigger opportunity where people have needs. All the different types of platforms, software they need in their business, whether to increase their internal processes, make them better, all make certain platforms as lead magnets. So for Legion purposes, right? That's how we kind of got really into it. The, actually the first website, and this is how it, it kind of how we got into it. The first website we created first or second, I would say that maybe the second or third, I can't even remember back in the day it was a e-commerce store and that did not have something like, WooCommerce, right. All big commerce or any of these e-comm platforms or Shopify. 


 Aj
 I mean, these I'm talking about, back in 2006 time period, there was literally nothing. If you wanted an e-commerce platform, you had to code it straight, HTML, you just have to hard code it yourself. And that's how you build e-comm platforms. We did it and we not only just, did the hard coding of the shopping out software. We when got into the reporting piece as well, went integrated and accounting piece. They'll, I think in a, we use some bits and pieces of open source of stuff. However, it was just brutal hard coding of e-com software, which kind of led us to getting into the app development and kind of, see the bigger picture there and seeing the beginning. Also we thought that, it would be great if we can help out a lot of folks who are out there who have this need. Most people don't even know where to go, where to find an app developer, whether they are building something for themselves or whether they are building it to sell. 


 Aj
 That's where we thought that, let's get into this world too, because obviously we have the skillset and we have the knowledge, we have the experience, so let's help lots of people out. 


 Josh
 Awesome. You guys started in the website and then you saw, you started to see a need for apps coming up. Right. Because the first, there wasn't WooCommerce, there wasn't Shopify, there wasn't all these, big calm places. You guys were building that and then you started getting into apps. That kind of paved the way for you. If you had to add up how many apps you guys might have built and launched, how many would you say in the last 10 years or so? 


 Aj
 I would say counting the apps, whether it's progressive web apps, meaning that, these are not true apps, which sits in the ideal install, sits in Google play store, but these are actual web apps, I would say, or 70 and some apps takes more than a year to build because they are so complex. Right. So there is. It's, it's funny you ask that question, Josh, we recently bid on an app and the scoping, just the scope, the, just the scoping process took us six months. Wow. Because it's a gigantic piece of software. We started last December and we just completed the scoping with the client actually early June, so early in this month. So it took us six months. I mean, when I say it took us six months, it actually took both parties six months to put it together. Obviously, they had other priorities come up and then they had to go and do those things and come back to it. 


 Aj
 Were very patient with that, but some apps takes a long time just to kind of conceptualize, to figure out whether it's a good idea or not, because you don't want to, spend much of money. At the end thing that, oh, I spent all this time and effort and money, and it's a complete failure. Right. And you don't want that. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Now how do we know? How do I know if it's a good idea, if it's worth going and invest in money, because if it's taking, six months to scope out a big project that maybe a year to build it an incredible amount of capital and time is being invested in this. How do I know when I'm in the shower and I come up with another idea, right? Another idea from this visionary guy, how do I know if it's worth going in and doing the next step? 


 Aj
 It's a very simple answer. You, a lot of people who think that, oh, we gotta, put this into a dashboard or a metric and metrics and, figure things out. It's, it's a very simple, a simple answer. The, the way we'll know whether it's a good idea or not is if others need it, if you can do a survey and see where the others would need something like what you are envisioning an app to be, it's never the situation where you want an app and you build it. You always have to ask the question. Would others actually download this app and keep it in their phone and start using it? If the answer to that question is yes, then I would say, yes, you should go ahead with building that app. If the answer is, I don't know, then don't do it. I asked this question from everyone who wants to work with us, I'll ask them who came up with the idea? 


 Aj
 Did you come up with the idea? Right. And just get a straight answer. The answer is, I would say 90% of the time is the, I came up with the idea and now they're not last, did you run it by your family, people in your close circle? How about, did you talk about it, with your friends and, get an idea about what they thought or did they have any objections about it? I would get into all of that because from, even if you are just hired, even if we don't partner up, if I just had to work on the app, we want to make sure that no one wants to exit this process. Six months down the line, or three months down the line. Right. We want someone to be committed to it. If someone exits halfway through it, then it's our loss as well as Dallas. 


 Aj
 Right. So we don't want that. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Well, I have a lot of ideas and I'm sure the visionaries listening in, or the investors or the, the heavy idea people, the inventors, the innovators, ideas come all the time and, talking with people about it and going, is this idea a good idea or bad idea? Do you need it? Would you pay for it? Would you use it right? There's there's questions to ask one of that. As I was early in my entrepreneurial stages, I was nervous to talk about the idea because I didn't want anybody to steal it. I had this greatest idea in the world and I kept my mouth shut about it. I invested my pension and I went all in. When I tried to build it, I couldn't. What advice do you have for other innovators, inventors and visionaries in regards to talking about your idea or working with a group like yours? 


 Aj
 Yeah. I would say that, we all want to be very protective of our ideas. Right. We want to, everyone wants to know Sinai and da before they talk about it. We have actually done their success studies with, will. We have bought properly folks who didn't need an agreement. They, I mean, they like let's go in and I'm British. You're a lot of folks who are listening in, there are folks like that too. What I would say is if you have an idea, trust me, no one's going to, in this day and age, there's a very little chance of someone stealing your idea and actually executing on that idea. Very slim chance, because anything which you can ever imagine is already, I mean, it's out there, you can just like lot of stuff, which you can, which you think is cool is already out there in form of a platform in form of some a SAS play, where you can, pay something monthly and get your, get your, basically your account and start using it. 


 Aj
 But, but w when you have a original idea taking that idea to the world, it's not easy. You feel, think that, someone can just because you talk top of top about an idea or drinks on Friday evening with someone, if you think that, they're going to go in and not see that idea and build a, a million dollar billion dollar business that I would say is not happening, because going from an idea to actual execution is not an easy path. Because you can obviously build that platform, then there's marketing around it too. Right. You understand marketing and that is a, not a, not for the faint of heart. Right? That really takes some gods to execute on it and make that idea reality. The other thing is no one understands the amount of investment you have to make, not just financially, but emotionally you're life-wise work-wise to get this idea to reality. 


 Aj
 Right? If someone thinks that, oh, I'm going to steal this guys gals idea and go build this, they, I don't know, they are not living in this real world. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that I had to learn that the hard way, and the more experienced set I, I got through hard knocks and the more experienced groups I was working with is people talked about ideas very freely. They, they would, they would validate it with other investors, other people who had the money and the resources to run with these ideas, but not the bandwidth or the desire and the energy. Right. To do that. 


 Aj
 Yeah. A lot of people will, when we, when you talk about these ideas with your investor friends, right. I'll be very, and I'll also say that, when you speak about ideas, you want to talk about ideas with the right kind of people, right? You don't want to just, run this by cussing Vinny and all these other folks who probably have no clue about, what you are, what your mission is. But, if you talk about your entrepreneur friends, they're probably want to not steal the idea. They probably want to partner up with you. If you need money or resources, they probably want to not give that to you. They probably don't want to even build it for you, or we don't build against you or, run against you, but they probably want to just partner up. They will also try to see where you are with the process. 


 Aj
 Right. If you are in a place where it makes sense for them to partner up, then they will say, yeah, let's up, he is capital law. Here are my resources. Feel free to use it, then let's partner up. I don't think anyone's going to just, try to steal the ideas. Yeah. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Talking with the right people about your ideas is so vital. Let me give you a few examples of mistakes that I made. Right. Every single idea in my head and in my notebook, I would talk with my wife about it. She's like, okay, I'm done with your freaking ideas work, make money, pay our bills. Right? So that was one mistake. I made that. I, I saw this guy and I knew him. He, went to church together, super successful, ran a very successful manufacturing company. I was asking him about an early stage technology company. He didn't have the expertise, but he brought his manufacturing to that. And it just, wasn't a fit. I should have been talking to people like you, who are technologists who know how much it cost to build it, who see how to grow it. Right. When, when you're sitting across from an entrepreneur, let's just say, I'm pitching an idea to you. 


 Josh
 I've got money. I got time. I got desire. I've got all the boxes checked and I'm ready to go on and nap. I've got time to write everything on my side as a green light, but you're looking at it and you're going, no, that's not a good idea. Here's why, what are some of the things that you would see if I'm talking to the right person that you would talk me out of it, even if I have the money in everything else lines up. 


 Aj
 Yeah. I would say the number one thing I would look for is whether the entrepreneur has done his or her own research to see where there, what kind of competition is out there. If you want to build another CRM system, just because, it has this one little feature, I would probably say, I don't know, because another CRM system can, add that very easily and just be a competition like overnight. Right. Make sure that you do your research, make sure that you do a deep dive and it's very easy to do, right. I'll just pull up Google and start looking up and you will come across all kinds of systems which are out there. Also have a, an idea about what's the expectation in terms of the implementation cycle. Let me explain that implementing an idea, which is gigantic can actually not be the best thing to do as you are rolling out a new platform, right? 


 Aj
 Scaling it down, find what your minimum viable product that MVP get kill MVP into, you know, get the structure on the MVP, make sure you know that what is your MBBS? We talk, talk with a lot of entrepreneurs who have this grand wish turn off in it once where they wants to take the idea and we actually help them to scale it down. W basically have chunks, version one and repeat version two, version three and any subsequent versions. Right. So when you do that helps out. Now, if someone says, no, no, I want all this to be in one. I want my launch throughout all of this. We will caution them saying that you might run into issues when you are trying to roll this out, because it's such a big project. What we have seen from my experiences as well building, as they see the visual of this coming together, big sidetrack, they wanted me to work on something else. 


 Aj
 So that's number two. Scale down your vision and see what are the core features you want to implement first? The third one I would say is, well, how would you make money? Right? There a way for you to make money? You might have a freemium lotion, but where is the premium? What, how would you make money? So we'll, we'll look into that. There are different ways of doing it, but we want to see a clear path for that. If someone can, just target those three things, I think, they are going to be in a good place when it comes to a successful app development process with any app developer. 


 Josh
 Those are great things like, when I started writing out my idea, I, I was starting in my notebook and I filled up the notebook fast, but then I went and I actually bought a huge poster board. I wrote out my idea, this was before, they had tablets and all these other things, but the idea was massive. I was doing scoping for it, the project was crazy now that because I added, I spent crazy amount of time adding every single feature. I priced myself out of an app very quickly. Whereas the core value, the minimal viable product was very tiny. I could have launched that easily. I, I made that mistake. So that's really good input. And that comes from experience. Right? You. 


 Aj
 See. 


 Josh
 This? Let me ask you all right. This is going to be a personal question. If I grabbed your phone right now, and I took a look at your phone, are you an apple or android guy? 


 Aj
 I'm Android guy. 


 Josh
 All right. So got it. I, I w we grabbed your, Andrew. 


 Aj
 Asked that question for the technology guy, 


 Josh
 Right? Exactly. That, that was my expectation. I expected that, but I, I clicked on screen time and I saw which app you use most rap. You know, you can't say YouTube. You can't say, my contact list, what app that is from a, a developer or someone that's not a huge corporation. Which app do you use the most? 


 Aj
 So I can say audio. M. 


 Josh
 A okay. You can say audible. Okay. Give us the top three things then maybe. 


 Aj
 You mean top three things I like about Ariba. 


 Josh
 Oh, no. Top, maybe top three apps. So you named the big company. Okay. Amazon picked up audible and they're doing okay. Right. What about some smaller apps? 


 Aj
 Let me, let me take a quick look. I think I need to just like, look at it real quick. Ooh. It's always the big guys, whom I use the, you use the most, but there is an app called Yukon video editor. It's a small company. You cut video editor. To edit quick videos, things like that, very easy to use. I, I definitely recommend using those guys. Another small app is called tiny scanner. Great. For scanning documents. I've actually found it easier than using the actual scanner to scan any documents. Yeah. Those, those, I would say, so along with audible, those two. 


 Josh
 Yeah. All right. Another personal question. Inaudible. What, what book are you listening to right now? 


 Aj
 The book I'm listening to right now is a very. 


 Josh
 Smiling, 


 Aj
 It's a 1 million followers by a Brendan Keegan. 


 Josh
 Okay. Got it. Yeah. 


 Aj
 Yeah. 


 Josh
 Super cool. It's a book about creating followers and essentially building something of influence. Is that right? Yeah. 


 Aj
 Yeah. Yeah. Building influence. It's a book, how he builds 1 million followers within 30 days, obviously, he D I mean, he is really nobody. He's not Taylor swift. He's not bad, but he has worked on Taylor swift, ? He says that he's nobody, but anyone can build the followers if you really do the right thing. 


 Josh
 Okay. It comes to apps, we'll go back to apps, right? So, were looking at a deal together and you're like, Hey, Josh, you haven't done a deep dive. You know, the scope is massive. The competition's there, the competition could easily add your one feature, Zoho pipe, drive Salesforce. They could easily add this, CRM that adds your picture to it, or whatever the small feature is. Right? You talk some people out of deals, right. Or you advise them, Hey, you might want to consider something else when someone's sitting across from you, let's say, you and I are having coffee in Tampa. Right. And then the perfect deal comes across. You're like, not only is that a good idea, but I'm taking my personal money out of my pocket as an investor and going in with you, what kind of thing makes it a good idea enough where you would invest in it? 


 Aj
 I think, the best way to explain this is actually using an example, right? We had the opportunity to work on, and I'll bring up two examples, the same ones, which I shared with you before we hit record, there is a company who creates podcasts, helps folks like you to basically roll out podcasts. They hired us to write a, what we would, what we see as the Zillow of podcasts. Every podcast in the future we'll have a, a score like the Zestimate, which will basically rank your podcasts among the 2.3 million podcasts out there. They hired us to create that platform. When I looked at it, once it's created, we created the player as well. When I look at it, I know it's going to be a, such a hit because that the, the founders already have a very successful business around podcasting. That, gives a, that gives us a sure that, when we invest in something like that, it's gonna go really far because, it's all about, the passion and the experience the founders have, right? 


 Aj
 Am I sit down with them and for dinner rings, I know that no, they are very passionate about taking it to the next level. They will on Republic. And, they did it the right way. I took personal money and invested in that company because I know that, they are going to take it to the next level. Another deal, which didn't happen that way was we started working on a platform where you can sell your board or your $400 million yacht, this platform, it's a yacht listing software. There is also the yacht closing software aspect. This is going to go against the 800 pound gorilla in the market right now with once it's launched. We are very excited about the opportunity there. I'm a 50% bought that business when I saw it. I mean, I saw the opportunity. We looked at the, the subscription plans, the other co-founder put together and the network she has within the yacht business, not just her network, because she has generational network. 


 Aj
 This is the most important and interesting part to me. Her mom was a yacht close as well. She worked for, for a company as a yacht clothes, and she, they have all kinds of connections in the yachting industry. That really kind of, was a, a kind of a dead giveaway for me that this is a great opportunity to get in. And, we just, he invested in that because we see the opportunity. Some of these are made, these decisions are made by, getting, really close on calculations. Some calculate calculations based. Obviously the numbers are very important, but more than the financial, sometimes what matters most is the numbers, which are beyond the financials, we, which is the numbers you, you see in the future, because it's the numbers of your network, right? It's the numbers of the quality of your network, things like that. I, I would say, those are also very important considerations when it comes to making the decision on investing in any kind of app out there. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Super awesome. Here are some nuggets that I'm repeating what you shared. Yeah. They had a, for YouTube make an investment personally, out of your own pocket. You can't even talk, I do this for a living. I can't even talk personal expertise. They have industry knowledge, they have tribal knowledge of what it does and who it serves. They have a passion or a desire for it. It's, it's, it's some way disruptive your case. It's going after the 800 pound gorilla, they have it surrounded around a massive network. They do potentially launch this, or when they do, they already have a network of people that they know, and that they've served for a long time for generations. Right. You're looking at numbers beyond financials. Right. I want you to explain that . Oh, did I miss anything from that? 


 Aj
 No, no. You're good. Okay. So yeah, I can answer that question. 


 Josh
 Yeah. So the numbers behind the financials, right? So I'm looking at the app. I go, okay, customer acquisition costs. This is what the average value of each user's going to do. This is how much each transaction is going to make me. I'm looking at the financials I'm going, this looks pretty sound business. You're saying, well, there's numbers beyond the financials. What are those that I'm missing? 


 Aj
 Yeah. I'm going back to that example of the network, right? It's really hard to put a, a dollar amount on your network. Right. I mean, there's a saying that your network is a network, but when you have generational network, then you know that y'all, you know, it's very easy to acquire customers just because the, you know, only one person gets to know about it. And it spreads like wildfire. And yes, it is. It is connected to a customer acquisition costs. However, if he think about it, if it is okay, my customer acquisition cost is based on the marketing dollars I spent that does not apply to this because when one gets to know about it, especially in the yachting industry, it's very big. At the same time, it's very small. That's because if you ever go on a, on a, on a, on a jotting expedition, right? 


 Aj
 You say, you're going to Alaska next week. You come to Florida, the yachting people in Florida will know that you went on a yachting expedition in Alaska, right. Because it's, again, it's very big at the same time. It's very small. Everyone talks, everyone talks to each other. Your customer acquisition costs will be very low when you have that kind of network. Knowing that you can tap into these things easily is a big thing. It's really a big thing because at the end that it's gonna bring down your marketing costs. 


 Josh
 Yeah. AIJ, I'm sure you've heard this before. If I build it, they will come right out. I'm not even worried. People are, I'm just going to build this thing. I'm going to submit it to apple and Google and people are just going to line up to sign up. Right. Yeah. Have you experienced that before? 


 Aj
 Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, like on a daily basis. Right. Everyone thinks that, let's, I mean, it's not even from app world, people think that, when you build a website that people, your phone stopped ringing. Right. You know, that's really not the case. When it comes to a website, you got to push everything proactively to Google. Right. That's how you are going to get those phone calls or inquiries coming through. The same thing goes when it comes to creating an app, I would say that whatever, your, whatever your spend or your budget on creating an app live at least two thirds of that. Or I would say, two thirds more for the marketing, because that's how much easily that's how much you want to know spend in getting the word out. Because if I use that example of the yachting platform, you will have to go to yard shows. 


 Aj
 Right. You will have to go to boat shows, you'll have to resource the resource, the marketing department to reach out to all the Marine brokers. Right. That's a ton of work that needs to be done to get your word out. Things will not automatically happen just because you build it. 


 Josh
 Yeah. All right. I think we've all experienced that some way with where we've invested in a website or built a podcast, or, we built something and then we sat around, okay, when's my phone going to ring? And it didn't right. You're saying, add on another two thirds, add on more, because it's going to cost to acquire customer, to get someone to one day, open up the apple store, Google store, download it, right. There's a cost for that acquisition. What are some of the, give us some tips and tricks for other fellow investors out there building apps or investing in apps or founders? What are some tips and tricks on customer acquisition? 


 Aj
 I would say then a podcasting is a big one. Get on podcasts. It's a, it's a good one. It's a big one. Get on podcasts and, give a shout out about, what you're working on top, more about the features and functions and how it can serve the community. You can obviously, do a search engine optimization, hire a marketing company to do your Google ads retargeting, and also select the social media channels. You want to go after very carefully, just don't select, oh, I'm going to do Facebook, Instagram, and Tik TOK. Don't do that, make it numbers driven. Right. Also think, where your customers are hanging out. Are they hanging out in tick-tock holiday? Right. You're just trying to sell a $40 million yacht. Are they on tick-tock? Maybe they are, but no, that right, for sure. When it comes to marketing expenditure or marketing, spin, micro testing, I can't stress the importance of micro testing. 


 Aj
 You want to make sure that you hire a firm who big on micro testing. It's not about, just because you will have a $10,000 budget a month that are million dollar budget a month. They're not just saying, okay, let's build through this million dollars. So we get paid. That's not the way to do it. You to have a team who with a micro test for probably a month or a month and a half to make sure that they know exactly the customer journey or the potential customer journey when they see that ad. Right. And which ad can work the best. Micro test the heck out of it, and that will get you the biggest bang for your buck. If I summarize, get on podcasts very easily to do right, and then a higher team who can run a successful Google campaign, whether you are doing organic or whether are doing PPC pay-per-click retargeting or both. 


 Aj
 Third one is when it comes to social media, don't go after the what's new and shiny and bright out there, but all this do your due diligence and pick one where your customers are hanging out and go after that one. 


 Josh
 Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So, in your experience, as a technologist over here, building apps for other people, investor investing in other apps that you find interesting and that you see promise, what does the future look like for you and your group? Like where are your interests heading? Okay. 


 Aj
 Yeah. So we are looking for more deals. We are looking for better opportunities. That's where our future is setting. We, we come across the way we grow is we by partnering up with other companies. So that's where we are heading. We are always looking for opportunities. We always looking for folks who have great ideas, where we can help them to execute them and even partner up. And that's how we are heading. 


 Josh
 Super cool. I'm looking on your LinkedIn and it says a passionate father have to have your kids learn how to build apps, or have you built apps for your kids or any family members yet. 


 Aj
 The ass is actually, my son has hire this kid.com. This is something which we did pre COVID and he's 11. Now my daughter is, she just done turned five. My son before COVID, we'll go to local businesses in Tampa and he will do a video review of that business. He'll get paid a hundred bucks, which is great money, right. And it's better than a mowing lawn. So, running lemonade stands and we have a YouTube chat actually, he has four YouTube channels. He, he has one for that. He has a travel YouTube channel. He's a musician as well. He has written his own songs. These are published, they're on iHeartRadio. We've done like music videos. I welcome anyone to check him out. Shane a N E look at my last name, L U T H w a L a. There's a really cool song called island of dreams, which we shot in Tampa, into four DeSoto. 


 Aj
 It has this pirate theme where it starts with a kid dreaming and like falling asleep at his desk. He w and in his dream, he is, he's a pirate and he finds a pressure. So it was a fun video shoot. So, 


 Josh
 And it's called islet. We could check out the, is a song that he produced on. 


 Aj
 You do it'll be on YouTube, Spotify. I mean, all, all kinds of different channels, but the video is obviously on YouTube. 


 Josh
 I found it on I'm on Spotify just now. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. I'll I'll check that out. After we get off the call. You're building an influencer and you're building a technologist, right. That's super cool, man. I love it. I love it. Let me ask you this question. Right? All day long technology and playing with your Android phone and helping other people build, technology stuff, what do you do for fun? Right? What, what's something that like a personal interest of yours that you're like, what I w I really dig this. This is how I maybe unplug from technology for a bit. 


 Aj
 Yeah. The way I do that is actually, I'm really good at grilling. And I make some mean, mean ribs. Yeah. We, when we lived in the Wichita area in Kansas, I got the secret recipe from a Kansas city, barbecue society judge, to make ribs, to make some mean rips. I get the broad statement from Oklahoma and get the barbecue sauce from Wichita. Yeah, I mean, that's, I mean, I actually agree with last night as well, made some pork medallions. So that's my jam. 


 Josh
 So you're really good cook. Next time we're hanging out in Tampa, we're having a grill party. 


 Aj
 I'm doing it, eating barbecue. 


 Josh
 I love it. Love it, love it. So, AAJ, as you're building this, this company, what's your you're looking for, you guys are looking for more interesting deals to do for other people and maybe some other deals to partner up with is there like a, and maybe this is some inside information could share with me, is there like an app or something that you have in your head that you're like, why doesn't someone build this? It might not be me, but someone really needs to fix this problem. 


 Aj
 Right. I will actually share the perfect app for everyone listening in, right? Because you all get ideas pitched to you, right. You don't know where the, what this company is claiming is true or not. Right? Just imagine this, we have a system where the accounting system is plugged in. Well, their bank account is plugged in. You get a dashboard. It's really an EOS system where you see what their numbers are by yourself. They don't have to submit those numbers to you. You can go and check the numbers at 10 o'clock at night, on a Saturday, right. The real numbers. You can check the numbers for last year, the previous year, last month, you can check all of that because all these numbers are plugged in because it's very easy. When you go to a mastermind, when you go to these, circles where people get on stage and claim that, oh, I got denied it, $10 million worth of sales. 


 Aj
 Last year, I sold this property for 230 million last month. And I had the biggest quarter Pruitt. I'm not saying that, I, I, I'm not trusting you, but I'm just saying it, pull your numbers, put it on display. We got to create a system where everything is plugged in. When we had that, then deal making becomes very easy. And who will, who has that? Who has that system will be able to put it on like subscription basis and sell it out to a cent, like sell it, to do anyone. I think that would be a cool app to have for all those deal makers out there. 


 Josh
 Yeah. I think that's super cool. I love, I love transparency. Like when I'm looking at a deal or when are, other groups are asking for deal, like transparency is like number one thing, especially when it comes to numbers, right? Like we want to see numbers. We want to see that. If it's a way that it does it automatically, that's a pretty good idea. Hey, maybe we should talk about that app. Maybe we'll maybe we'll do something like that during this interview. I want you to give a place where, for people out there, they're like, Hey, I got this perfect idea for an app or our business needs an app, or maybe I want to invest in some apps, but I need some help. I need some partners who could help me build that out. Right. What's a good place for other deal makers to connect with you and maybe talk apps and investing. 


 Aj
 Absolutely. Anyone can go to a J E three sixty.com. That's dot com. That is a button called contact Scott, all the way to the bottom. It save contact. If you do this on your phone, you'll be able to save my contact details to your phone and just, feel free to reach out to me. My contact is out there. Feel free to reach out to me and set something up and we can talk about, or anything you want to talk about. 


 Josh
 Awesome. AAJ. If were hanging out and were having a barbecue and I get to invite some friends. Right? Like, but there, they have to be like a, a band or a musician or an actor, right? 


 Aj
 Yeah. 


 Josh
 All right. They could be alive or they could be from the past. Who would you want to hang out with? Whether it's a musician or an actor. Who's like, who's someone that you're like you have starred them about that you would love to have at your barbecue and cook for them. So good. All right. We will definitely have some Dave Matthews playing. Awesome. What's your favorite Dave Matthews band song, by the way, DMV song, 


 Aj
 Nothing comes to my mind right now. 


 Josh
 I put you on the spot. 


 Aj
 I like them off. 


 Josh
 Does your son says your son's a musician? Does he play any DMV on his guitar. 


 Aj
 Now? He does not. He's not dead, but he's actually just learning the riff for hotel, California. Just the hard part is learning that it is going through it right now. So yeah. I mean, he can play the song and sing it, but he's trying to, get that piece nailed down. That's kind of his, what he's trying to accomplish this summer. 


 Josh
 Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, man, I appreciate you coming on the show. Are there any questions that I should have asked you that I completely screwed up and did not ask you? 


 Aj
 No, you, you did great. I think in a week out at all. 


 Josh
 Awesome man. Well, you did great too. Let's do this fellow dealmakers in the audience. If you, if you want to connect with our guests to talk about apps or investing all their contact information, all of his contact information will be in the show notes below. You can connect with him directly say, Hey, I heard you on the deal scout. I've got an app idea, or I want to invest in something and I need your help with it. Reach out to our guests and say, thanks for being on the show and find a way to do a deal with them. That's a purpose and mission of the show. Now, if you are working on a deal or looking for a deal and want to talk about it here on the show, head over to the deal, scout.com, fill out a quick form. Maybe get you on the show next till then we'll talk to you all on the next episode. 


 Josh
 See you guys.