Investing In Films with James Hilton

Hey, good day, fellow deal makers. Welcome to the dial scout. On this show, we talk about deals all day long. The mission and purpose of this shows to put deals and deal makers together. If you hear about a deal on the show and you would like to learn more, you can look at the show notes for this episode, and you'll be able to find the contact information of our guests. Our guests are made up of deal makers ranging from I spoke with someone who did lemonade stands all the way to special purpose acquisitions and politicians and all sorts of wild deals in between. If you're working on a deal, you could always head over the deal scout.com, fill out a quick form, and talk about your details of the show. With that, today, I do this for a living, and I still stumble. 

 Today we're going to talk about the dial scout film and investing in film with Mr. James Hilton. James, welcome to the show. 

 Thanks for having me, Josh. It's really fun to be here. 

 Absolutely. Now, where's home for you guys? 

 So we're in Boston. 

 In Boston. All right. First of all, I'm wearing a Boston hat for you guys. 

 Yeah, we appreciate that. 

 I wanted you to feel at home. This is the Houston one of the Houston hats or whatever. It's not the scaly hat. Those things are really nice. 

 Yeah, totally. It's a nice one. 

 Thank you. I appreciate it. It's always a good way to start out interviewvalet, compliment the host. So we're off to a great start. James, tell us about who you are and what you do. 

 Sure. So, as you mentioned, my name is James Hilton. I'm the co founder and CEO of Xpressify. We're an equity funding platform for film and television projects. I'll just mention in film and television, it's kind of animal onto itself. Getting a film funded is one of the largest obstacles that filmmakers have, regardless of tablet. Spike Lee, for example, when he was out of NYU, it took him about four years to get his first deal funded. He spent the majority of that time fundraising. Obviously, once you've got a really successful feature too, under your belt, it's a lot easier, there's more options. Even so, there's still a need for funding in that area. We created Xpressify to really streamline that process. And so we find great deals. We get a lot of submissions to our site. We have relationships with producers, and producers obviously get hammered with a ton of deals as well. 

 Just projects that are looking for funding. There's kind of a natural curation process that happens through that. Once a producer attaches themselves to a project, it's pretty high tier at that point, if it's an experienced producer and they've chosen to take that on, we look for projects that have talent already attached. We like to see names, at least one that's recognizable, that has decided to associate themselves with the project. We do internal script coverage, so we'll actually have a few people on our team read the script and provide thorough analysis to make sure it's a really good, great script and storyon, which is a prerequisite. It's the foundation of the project. Everything is built on the script. We also like to see that a project has distribution lined up. That's not always the case. That's an area that we're actually building our business to assist with projects getting distribution. 

 But distribution obviously means potential sales. A project is going to get funded and get in front of eyes, which is the most important thing. On the distribution side, if you're going out there as a filmmaker, the challenge that you'll have is you'll go to distributors to try to sell your project and they'll ask if you have financiers, but then you'll go to financiers and they'll ask if you have distribution. It's kind of a teeter totter where they're both looking for each other. We try to create this common central marketplace where we can find really great promising projects from emerging filmmakers and pair them with distribution and financing. And so that's what we're building. 

 Yeah, it's like, which came first, the distribution or the investor? The financing. Right. Explain what is the traditional route? Right. Let's just say me, you, and Spike Lee graduated NYU, and we've got this idea for a film, but we got to raise some money. What does that process typically look like in Hollywood? 

 So, usually a filmmaker will start with shorts because if you haven't got anything to show your vidchops, you really need that to get anyone to listen to you. Usually filmmakers will start with shorts, at least one or two. Some of them do many shorts before doing a feature. Shorts are actually a really great way to prove a concept, not only with the filmmaker, but also with a story live. We have one filmmaker in our slate who came out with a short. It was kind of a proof of concept for her feature. When we started talking to her, she had just about 2 million views on her short on YouTube. In the time since we started talking to her, she just surpassed 4 million views. That's really great. It shows that there's traction with the idea and the sale maker. Even just showing chops, it doesn't even necessarily need to get a ton of views. 

 It just needs to be a great piece of work. Once that has been completed, you have a portfolio of some shorts to show. The most important thing is a really vetted, thorough script that's really ready to go and get investment and go to production. The script has to really be developed. The project has to have some talent attached, and that's definitely a challenging thing to do, but it's a critical first step to raising money. That's where a lot of the dial Scout started. Once they come to us right now, we're really focused on projects that, upon funding, are ready to go and they're ready to shoot. A lot of the attachments can happen very quickly if you're looking for a full cast. It can happen very quickly once the project is funded. We look for one or two, at least, known actors, actresses that are attached, as well as a strong team on the back end. 

 This is an absolute process, and a part of the deal is you got to have someone the initial person has to have some chops. They have to have some proof in the game that they could put together a story, they could get people interested in it. Right. 4 million views. That's a lot of people saying, hey, this is actually interesting. At that point, you start to look for you write out the full script. You start to look for the talent, the people who are going to be in it, try to get a big name because that could attract more eyeballs. They're raving fans and also credibility. You go to investors, film financers, and you go, hey, this is what we've got. We got Josh on the line, or we got Brad on the line. Whatever the case may be, let's do a deal. Yeah, right? 

 Absolutely. 

 Okay, now you mentioned now when you see the credits live, the credits sometimes now take 30 minutes, right? 

 Yeah. 

 They put eggs and bloopers and all this stuff within the credits. You actually pay attention, you sit there for it. When you see the credits go and you see titles like producer, executive producer, such like that, you mentioned those from the beginning. What are the roles of the money people? What are the roles and the titles of the deal makers in a film? 

 A lot of times, people that are involved in the financing side sometimes have just the title producer. The producers are doing a number of things, one of which is raising money or looking for distribution. A lot of times executive producers are more on the business side. They might be an investor in the project or they might be connecting it to money or distribution. Executive producer is a title that we look at a lot of times for prospective financiers on the platform. It is exciting to be an executive producer on a project. A lot of times you get to visit the set, you get to have that role on the project. You're kind of the facilitator of making the project happen and it's a great experience. 

 Got it. So you guys had this idea. Why did you have the idea, James Xpressify? Tell me about the background that even led you into film. 

 Yeah, so Dean and I, my partner Dean is we've been working together for several years and we have expertise in tech and user experience and user interface, and we've been working on Xpressify for a few years, starting with the tech and then moving on to the community building. What we noticed is, in general, there's a lot of location happening in funding live, you see a lot of funding platforms popping up, especially with the Jobs Act and an opportunity for both accredited and non accredited investors to participate. Most of the focus has been on startups. There's some platforms that are pretty broad and they do include film, but it's only one piece of what they do. Evaluating a film project or a television project is entirely different than evaluating a traditional startup. If you look at content, the Pandemic showed us that content is in shortage. 

 There may be a lot of connect out there, but great content is hard to come by and streaming platforms are really competing over it. Over the next ten years, it is projected that video streaming will do about ten x in terms of the size of the industry, that finding film projects and television projects that are really promising is a great opportunity for an alternative investment. That's what really got us into it. It's fun supporting the content that we consume and finding great stories to tell that have been traditionally more difficult to get out there. 

 But why film, right? You guys have technology background, you and Dean are getting together, you guys did a lot of work together, and one day you said, let's build a platform that helps finance films. Why did you choose film? Why not real estate? Why not cool hats? Why not anything else? Why film? 

 I think film is inspirational, it's educational, it's entertaining. Film is something that we all consume. It's ever growing in demand. There's a constant demand for content. I think film is a great opportunity that has really been underserved. There's a ton of funding platforms popping up for startups and even real estate. There's a lot of cool and innovative stuff happening in real estate, but this just looked to us to be a really underserved market where if we could improve the concept with film and nail that process down, it could be really scalable. That's really what Andrew us to film specifically. I'll also mention film is something that there's kind of new streaming platforms popping up all the time. There is new money coming into film, but it's something that's kind of distant for most people live. Most people don't know where to start if they're interested in even dabbling in film or all of us consume content. 

 Having the opportunity to connect in a project alongside, say, live actors that were familiar with and that we see, it's kind of exciting. It's an attractive space. It's obviously a very challenging space to get into because a lot of it is relationship driven and it's done over email and you have to know the right people. With film, you really need to get exposed to a lot of projects to find the most promising ones that will be the least risky. We decided to really find great opportunities that are based on a large number of projects that we're seeing, getting down to the most promising ones so that people can have a good place to start. 

 Yeah, super interesting. As you guys are building this out, right, part of your process is taking a look and seeing if the story is good, the script is good, and then also, does the writer have chops? Do they have distribution lined up? Maybe do they have some money lined up when it comes to distribution? It kind of needs a three legged tripod, right, for it to get it start. When you're looking at a script, what are some things that you look for to make it good or bad because there's some movies that were incredible and then there were some flops that everybody thought was going to do good. How do you got a good one? 

 So you don't necessarily know. It's never a certainty. The most important thing is that there's actually a point system. We look at scripts from about eight different perspectives. The pace of the story, the character development, the overall plot. There's actually a scoring system that we use. It's fairly industry standard for evaluating the script. One of the biggest red flags right off that is that the script hasn't been polished, even though spelling or grammar issues or things like that are easily fixable and don't necessarily tied directly to the storyon. Those types of things are kind of a red flag because it shows that the script just hasn't been developed enough to be ready for the screen. We evaluate scripts, we tried to get a few different perspectives so at least two or three people doing coverage on the script so we can see that there's consensus. 

 There are some scripts where you read it and it's just bad and it just needs a lot of work because it isn't something that you can see being enjoyable to watch or it's very cliche ordinary. There are others that really are unique, connect, and they really kind of you keep turning the page live. One of our scripts, in most cases, to get an attached known actor on a project, usually need to have some kind of funding, development funding to get their name attached. You'll give them some kind of fee just to get live a letter of intent, for example. One of our projects actually got attached without a fee, just purely based on the script and the relationships with the producers. And so that's a great sign. It shows that the actors are really interested in the story. They think that it's a great project and so that certainly helps a lot in terms of identifying a good project. 

 Distribution one is you guys have a point system when you're taking a look at how many scripts a month is your team reviewing to find out which ones go on your portal. 

 We get a lot of submissions to the site. Most of our projects come from producers that we work with and on average, each producer, if they're known in the industry, is getting at least 20 to 50 per day. So it's unmanageable. There's so much out there and there's a lot of junk out there too. It's like maybe projects that could be great if they were more well developed, but they're just not ready for prime time. Part of what we're actually working on for our producers is a process for dealing with these submissions on a scalable basis. It's way more than one person can review. We are actively working on a system for looking at that many projects at kind of a very high level and then figuring out which ones need to bubble to the top to look more closely at. We haven't brought that offering out yet, but that's something we're really excited about further developing and bringing to our producers. 

 Because the most important thing is finding the gems. The producers are just as interested in finding the gems in the scripts that they're meeting. ID anyone else. It's just very challenging to do it. 

 Yeah. Holy moly. I don't think I could ever be a producer in that world because getting 20 to 50 a day, and then it would take me probably a month to read one. You got to really take up speed reading to be good at this job. When you find a producer that has latched on to a project, they're going, hey, I've read a lot of them. This is a diamond. They come to you and they go, we're going to raise some money. Let's see if you boys could go raise the money with us, right? Is that how the process goes? Yeah, I need money. 

 Yeah, for sure. 

 Money. What size raise do you think you guys are going to go after as you guys are building and growing this? 

 The projects on our platform range right now from 500 on the low end to 10 million on the high end. However, really established filmmakers with really promising projects, the budgets can go to 20 to 50 million. On the independent side, obviously, big blockbusters from the large studios can be 200 million or more. That's kind of the most common budget sizes for the independent space. 500k on the low end is really common for hard projects, like grassroots hard projects. Paranormal Activity, which I'm not sure if you remember that one, that was actually I think it was like a $14,000 budget and the filmmaker made it into the house, which there's a whole range of these projects. Blair Witch Project was a similar type of thing, where it's a really low budget project, but it just took off virally. Those are obviously outliers, but we found that there is definitely a market for low budget horror movies. 

 That's a place that a lot of our financiers and producers will play in. The average independent film that we are really looking to focus on has a budget anywhere between two and 10 million. 

 Yeah, I just looked this up while you were chatting Blair Witch Project. I think their budget was like 35 to something like that. I think they pulled in 193,000,000 globally. So let's talk about the ROI. Not a bad ROI, right? Return on investing in films. When it comes to films, though, it could have been a flop. It could have not got distribution. It was the first of its kind, and it did really well. When it comes to investing in film, what kind of people invest in film from your perspective. We see the executive producers and they have all these relationships in Hollywood. What about the normal, accredited investors that you guys are having conversations, what kind of investments do they make? 

 Yeah, it's not the norm to have that kind of crazy return. What we try to focus on is having a good slate of projects that are all very promising and have certain things in line, so that when investors look at them, they're in line with what they're expecting to find. One of the strategies that most investors will take is investing in a slate of projects. You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. They'll usually diversify across a number of projects because it is true, some of them, even though they look like they have everything going for them, they may not be as successful as you're hoping. On the other side, some of them will be breakouts. It's a VC model where you diversify, but there's a lot more to it. When people have decided that they want to invest in film, it's a very difficult thing to start with if you haven't been in there. 

 Even if you are doing it with that number of scripts that you're getting, location of projects is definitely a lot of value because it just makes it easier to find good projects and it's always better to co invest in a project and do it alone. So that's what we try to do. We try to pool multiple investors into a project on each one. In general, that thing can mitigate that risk. We also, you know, time is money. We try to consolidate all of the materials into one place so they can make a decision as quickly as possible. The script, the budget, the distribution projections, log lines, trailers, everything that you would expect to find in a particular movie deal, we bring it to one place so they can make a decision on a project basis very quickly. 

 Now, have you seen as people are looking at investing in films and they'll get their first couple of rounds and they'll go, let's produce this. They put together a trailer to see what kind of interest people get, right? They start shopping this around like, hey, I got Josh Wilson and Brad Pitt. They are going to costar in something and they're going to run this out. Is that how it typically works? Where they'll kind of package that initial stuff together or they just go, hey, we're going to bet on this, let's roll with it all the way through? How does that typically work? The reason I'm asking let me post it with this. The reason I'm asking is some of these films, let's just say a $10 million independent film, right? Let's say we get a big name going the distance and hoping that a lot. 

 Of people really go for it is risky, right? Just like all investments. How do you mitigate some of that risk on the front end? What have you guys seen? 

 So, the more traction that a project has, the better. It's one thing to develop to invest in a script that is just a script, and it's another to invest in a project that already has attached talent on it. It's another to invest in a project that already has attached talent and already has some funding towards it. These are just different levels that investors can get into a project. Our goal is to match financiers with the type of projects that they're looking to get involved in. You might have people that want to be more of a developer, they might want to find a great script that has some traction, but get in early and help that project get to the next level before full fundraise. There are other projects where it's in post development, for example. We have one that has already shot all of its principal photography and they need money for post production and to cover a bridge loan. 

 That's a great polar opposite end of the spectrum because there's very little risk of it not being completed. The project has already shot, and so the turnaround time to delivery is much lower than that of a project that's in pre production. Our goal is to align investors with what they're looking for. Some people just want to provide finishing funds and that's a great opportunity. Others want to be earlier and more involved. It's just a matter of what they want to get involved in. 

 I've never invested in a film. I have been in some derated films, like some super budget live horror stuff back in the day, but I have no experience investing in film. However, investing on the business side, right? I look at the different stages of film, right? So you might have a good script. You can invest in the script, but it's almost like an idea. They built out the prototype and then you might have some that has some talent attached to it, right? That could be like the founding team. You've got a good management team, you got some good jockeys running the deal. Okay, it's a little less risky now that we know this management team has produced some great movies. You get some funding, you're like, okay, now they've got some traction, they've got some runway, they can do this. You look if they got of distribution or they've got eyeballs on it. 

 Now it's just the different stages and the different tastes for the investors. Did I get that right or did I miss anything? 

 Totally, 100%. 

 Okay, so in terms of let's just say we go the distance, we all invest in some money that shows a hit. Yay. The greatest showman and we have a blast, and we're like, okay, how the heck do we get paid? Right? You got to pay the actors. You got to pay the film guy. You got to pay all these people. How does the money chop up? What do the term sheets look like? 

 Yeah, so typically, every project will have a budget, and it's a pretty detailed budget. There will be a top sheet so you can get a high level glance, but ultimately, there will be a very thorough line budget that breaks the entire budget down into how Ian Hill all be financed and what will typically happen. To be honest with you, every deal can be very different. That's something that's kind of unique to this space because you might get money from debt or you might get money from distributors. Sometimes distributors will pre buy content which can finance the film. Sometimes you'll get a minimum guarantee from a distributor. Usually the answer is some mixture of equity and debt and distribution. There's a few different ways that you're getting to that overall budget. On the equity side, we try to be pretty in line with the industry standards in terms of what financiers would expect and what creators and filmmakers would expect. 

 The typical terms that you're looking at there are we go for a minimum return to the investors of 120% before the filmmakers participate in the revenue, and then we have a 50 split thereafter between our investor pool and the creators. 

 Okay, let me make sure I understand. 

 Yeah. 

 Investors put in a million bucks, right. The show blows it out of the water, and everybody's paid. So they get 120% of that back. Right. It blew it out of the water, and it was a profitable show. After it's all said and done, 7 million has been paid out. There's 3 million still left on the table. They get 50% of that carry. 

 Yeah. That goes to the SPV, which is the group of investors from Expressify copy that. 

 You guys create up an SPV for each individual project. You guys raise the capital through that SPV. And those are the terms. 

 Exactly. 

 If it flops, you guys get a hard copy of a DVD in your name. Right. It's just like business, and anything could be a great investment, and it may not. 

 Yeah, exactly. It's kind of an interesting space because there's a lot of people who both invest in the arts as well as there's a lot of people who donate to the arts, for example. A lot of financiers will look at it that way. It's financing something that is Xpressify and art, but also you're expecting to do well with it. You're not just meeting ID in because you're not expecting to make something in return. That obviously happens. A big part of it also is the experience of doing it. And it's a really unique experience. To be an executive producer on a project and being one of the supporters of the content. 

 Yeah, if I were investing in films, the thing that I would look through is I'd want to see names. Right? It might be just an investor bias or a Hollywood bias, but meeting a big name for means that this has a better likelihood of succeeding. However, that means you have to pay them a lot more. If you're looking for more of a start ups feel, you invest maybe in someone who might be not known or an up and coming person. Now, when it comes to live the person you said now, you just nodded your head yes or no. Explain why that happened. There's people listening into the podcast. I want them to pick up on that too. Why was that a so? 

 Yeah, it's always better in terms of a promise project. Having good promise, it's always better to have recognizable talent. There's always exceptions to any rules. Like Squid Game, for example, was wildly successful and most people in the US. Didn't recognize any of the cast that was in Squid Game and it was a foreign production. But that being said, those are outliers. Just like were talking about Blair Witch Project and Paranormal Activity. There wasn't a lot of recognizable talent at all in either of those, but they're wildly successful, so it definitely happens. It's always really great to see known recognizable talent on a project. Even having live one or two really recognizable names goes a long way and you can definitely fill out your cast with additional talent that's less recognizable. But it goes a long way. In my opinion, it would better to have a more recognizable name attached or two then to just go live a mid level. 

 That being said, great films get made all the time with different levels of recognizable talent and it's just a matter of kind of setting yourself up for success in the best possible way. 

 All right, you are not allowed to say Blair Witch. What was the other one? 

 Paranormal Activity. 

 Paranormal Activity. And I think we mentioned one more. You're not allowed to mention those because we already mentioned it. If you could go back in time and invest in a film in the early stage, which film would you invest in? It could because of the return or because it meant something important to you. 

 Yeah, so I'll tell you right now, I would leap at the opportunity to invest in Star Wars. Star Wars is a good example because if you go back to when Star Wars first happened, I don't remember specifically what the number was, but that project was pitched to a number of studios that turned it down before they eventually got some funding. Original ideas like that are risky, but they're also hard to come by like great original ideas. If you were trying to pitch a Star Wars now. It would probably be even harder to get it funded now than it was when they were first starting out. Obviously that has become a wildly successful franchise. But it all starts with the first. That was kind of a vision and he already had kind of an entire storyline mapped out for what he wanted to do with it, but that's for sure. 

 Just to pick one. There's plenty of examples of original stories like Home Alone, for example, is a unique it's a holiday project. It's a Christmas movie. That certainly helps in terms of marketability. Christmas movies are always in demand because it's nice to have fresh movies in the holidays. Home Alone is pretty unique as well. When it was pitched, and I don't know if you knew this, I actually learned this from watching something on Netflix about the origin story of Home Alone, but they actually lost funding. They were ready to go. They were shooting in Chicago. They had the whole thing set up and they lost funding. This guy, one of the producers, was going around the whole building telling everyone to fold up, put everything away, we just lost funding. The project is not going to happen. About 20 minutes later, they got funding from 20th Century Fox. 

 So it just changed studios. A second guy was following the first guy around the whole building, telling everyone, no, we're back on. Get everything. Yeah. 

 Holy moly, how interesting. That movie became wildly successful and the right studio picked it up and they did okay. 

 Yeah. 

 As you guys are building this organization, you guys are going to build it, grow it. What are some milestones that you're hoping to hit in terms of films financed or dollars amount? What are some of your personal goals for that? 

 We only launch to our community of finance years with our first slated projects about a month ago. We've already got about four hundred K of expressed interest across eight different projects, which we're thrilled with that type of momentum right out of the gate. We haven't even really gone big in terms of publicity or marketing yet. That's all grassroots community development and getting the proverbs in front of us. Financiers and so our goal is to fund our first project and we're looking to do that in the next 30 to 60 days. In general, we're looking to ramp up our deal flow to a consistently one a month once we're up and running in a more scaled fashion. We obviously have some goals that are longer term and growth goals, but we try to take it one step at a time, one milestone at a time. We're really thrilled to get the traction towards some of those projects that we've already seen. 

 For people who want to learn more, what's a good place to connect with you and explore Xpressify. 

 We have a live site they can go. James xpressify IO so it's Xpressifyio, and we actually have when you first land on the page, we got a nice easy email inbox. They can put in their email to sign up. We do have an evaluation process and an approval process for financiers, but we're doing that pretty expediently. Right now we're focused entirely on accredited investors, preferably ones who already have experience investing in film, but not necessarily limited to that. What we try to propose to the filmmakers is that we're not only curating projects for the financiers, but we're also curating financiers for the projects. We're looking for people who are serious about looking at projects and supporting them financially. That's the best place they can go to start is Xpressify. IO cool. 

 My contact information will be in the Show Notes below. James, there's probably a question during this interview that I screwed up and did not ask you about investing in films. What question is that? 

 That's a good question. Let me think about that for a second. 

 And Dean's right next. Dean question. Should I ask? 

 I would say a good question is historically, most films we've known, their success through theatrical release and video streaming is becoming more prevalent. I would ask what the future is of consumption. Are people going to be going to the movie theaters to watch movies? Is video streaming playing a role? What's happening there? I obviously don't have a crystal ball to know exactly what's going to happen in the future, but one thing is abundantly clear, video streaming is definitely here to stay, is here to grow. Historically you would have looked at theatrical releases as a conservative means of getting film out there. I would say it's actually more risky now because you're not sure what the future of film releases and theatrical is. Video streaming is rapidly becoming not a supplemental distribution channel, but the distribution channel. It's expected to do about a ten x over the next ten years in terms of that consumption. 

 There's a lot of differences between the two. I think what we try to do, James Xpressify, is maximize distribution. We CRE marketing with producers who have worked with sales agents, we're partnering with distribution platforms. Theatrical is still an important part of pushing a movie out. In many cases you can't actually qualify for awards like an Oscar, for example, if you don't have a theatrical release. But distribution is so important. There's all different ways of distributing content, including live airlines and getting into the airline entertainment systems. Domestic distribution, foreign distribution, all different various streaming channels, subscription based, advertising based. The future is definitely in video streaming and advertising on demand and subscription based platforms. 

 Yeah, super interesting. Me, wife, three kids. If we want to go out the movie just cost alone. Right. Live. I love movies. First of all, I have a nine live and a two year old, so if there's really a movie I want to see, the kids aren't coming, so then I got to get babysitter, and then by the time it's a couple of $100, which is awesome, or I could rent two movies, put one movie on in the room for the kid on demand. The kids could be watching movies in the next room. Me and the wife could watch a movie, and we can also drink and not drive. I think streaming is definitely the future of entertainment and such, but this is really interesting, and I'm thankful that you guys talk to us about the deals of investing in film. All your contact information will be in the show notes, so people can go in and connect with you directly. 

 Any last thoughts before we say goodbye? 

 No. I appreciate you having us on the show. We're really excited to get expressed to buy out there, and I think there's a ton of opportunity to invest in the next generation of content. 

 Cool. All right, James, thanks for coming on the show. Fellow deal makers in the audience, as always, reach out to our guests, especially if you have an interest in what they're doing. You could ask questions, you could connect with them. You could even participate in what they're looking to do. All their contact information will be in the show notes. If you have a deal that you would like to talk about, here on the Deal scout, head over the deal. Scout.com, fill out a quick form. We'll get you on the show next. Till then, we will talk with you all on the next episode. Goodbye, everybody.