Passive Income Adventures with Emma Powell

Josh (00:00:02) - Good day, everybody. Welcome to the deal, Scout. On today's show we're going to have a conversation about podcasting, about deal flow, about food, about Inbox Zero and some interesting things that have occurred there. But I have Emma on the show. We've been we've been in contact for a few years, and we finally been able to put a camera up and do a recording. So Emma, welcome to the show.

Emma (00:00:26) - Hey, welcome. Thanks for having me. And I've got. I'm sitting at a gazebo at my aunt's house in Florida, and a miniature horse just walked by.

Josh (00:00:33) - You don't see that every day. But in Florida, I guess you do.

Emma (00:00:36) - There was the video podcast. Where did it go? This is. This has been such a great, fun adventure. Just retiring early or living on passive income and just traveling around. We're full time travelers, and I just had like, that full circle moment.

Josh (00:00:49) - Where.

Josh (00:00:50) - Only for a passive investor could you be sitting with a hammock in the back and a miniature horse ride by you in only in Florida?

Emma (00:00:57) - Exactly.

Emma (00:00:58) - We're recording outside because it's actually cooler out here than it is in the house.

Josh (00:01:02) - Yeah, where we're at in Florida. Like, what part of the the beautiful country of Florida are you in?

Emma (00:01:07) - We are. We're in Palm Coast, just south of Saint Augustine. We're going to be in Orlando for probably about a year, maybe 8 or 9 months. And we came we drove into Palm Coast on the day that that tornado hit, like last week, and it ripped the roof of our RV off and so, oh my gosh, find some alternative housing while we're waiting for an insurance claim. It's apparently we've had an RV for like two weeks when that happened. And now we have like a major insurance claim. So it's my, my, my podcast brand or whatever you want to call it is the Passive Income Adventures. And it's like there's no bad adventure. You know, the roof of your RV gets ripped off, you're going to learn something new and you're going to have an adventure from it.

Emma (00:01:42) - So that's what we're doing right now is waiting for some repairs.

Josh (00:01:45) - Oh, this is such a great idea. So what's your podcast name again?

Emma (00:01:49) - Passive income Adventures. It's about people who want to or have retired early and sharing their journey. The adventures are going on and and how they're either doing it somewhere, wherever they are along the journey, or people who have already done it, who are going to kind of reflect back on advice for people who are in process.

Josh (00:02:04) - I love it. So you travel around in your RV, what kind of RV do you guys have?

Emma (00:02:09) - We have a fifth wheel. And here's the thing. Like buying a depreciating asset as a real estate investor was a very painful for us. So we we we used our whole life insurance policy because we've been just socking money in there for a couple of years, and I needed to buy this RV and this truck, and I just didn't want to do it. Everything we looked at, I thought, this is going to lose half of its value the day we drive it off the lot.

Emma (00:02:31) - Nobody wants a new one because there's so many quality control issues since Covid. And so I just went and found one that was fully depreciated. It was from like 2008, I think, and the truck is 2017, and we just paid cash for it out of our life insurance policy because I felt like when we get down to Florida, maybe we can sell it when we buy a house here and we won't have to absorb so much of that depreciation. So it's like you can't ever turn off the brain, the investor, the investor mindset. It runs deep.

Josh (00:02:57) - Yeah, we.

Josh (00:02:58) - Bought a brand new one this year and it was hard for me to pull the trigger on it because I was like, man, I bought I bought one in the past. I totally renovated it. But the wife was like, let's buy, let's buy a new one, let's buy this. And it was, it's gorgeous, right? We love it. Yeah, but pulling the trigger on that where you're like, oh, that cash could do much over here.

Josh (00:03:18) - So that is for a hard for an investor to buy and enjoy things. Do you, do you find that.

Emma (00:03:24) - Yes, I'm very, very frugal. And I think it's why investing is a great fit for me because I'm more of a delayed gratification kind of person. And so at a certain age, in our 40s, we just realized, like we're always delaying gratification and we're never enjoying anything. And so we've been trying to consciously enjoy things more and at the same time being smart about it. So I'll give you an example. When the when the repair guy came in for the RV, he was saying, he said, I can't believe there's no water damage in this thing because we know what we're doing. And so two in the morning when the rain starts leaking in, we had no idea that the roof was torn up. We should have checked. When you're driving through those kind of winds, like, you know, you learn as you go, right? But at 2:00 in the morning, because we have so many apartments and rental houses, we knew how to handle a flood ourselves.

Emma (00:04:08) - And because you're not going to call somebody to come, oh, my RV is leaking at two in the morning. And so we just went into the nearby shed where we were staying, and we pulled out a tent. We found this big tent that couldn't find a tarp or anything, flip the tent over, tacked it down to the RV on top with boards, and we're filling up milk jugs with water just to get it to stay, because we didn't have any straps or anything. We're just out there doing it. We pulled everything out of our closets, put down every towel that we had, soak it all up. And the next day we went to Home Depot and got a fan and a dehumidifier. So by the time the repair guy got out there, there's zero water damage. It had dried out. We're leaving the heat on in the middle of the day in Florida. And. Yeah, and and he was poking around and he said, wow, this is a really well manufactured RV.

Emma (00:04:50) - And he was pointing out features because we don't know anything about RVs. Right. So he's pointing out features about why this is a good purchase. And I just felt like, wow, okay, so we didn't go for the we didn't go for the brand new and the glamorous and the try to impress your neighbors. We just wanted something solid that would last, that would hold its resale value. And because of the investing, the delayed gratification, buying things, smart buying things, right. And then having some of that frugality where we know how to fix things. If I'm not saying people should DIY, I'm saying that people should be able to DIY if the occasion calls for it. Your contractor flakes out. It's 230 in the morning. And you just don't have any help, right then?

Josh (00:05:31) - Yeah. Well, being I'm not there. I'm not where you're at. Right. We're. We're earlier in our journey, but being retired. Right. Air quote retired because she's still. You're still employed.

Josh (00:05:43) - Self employed. Exactly right. Being able to do stuff keeps you engaged to right. It keeps you interested. It keeps you learning. It keeps you doing. It keeps you active. And I think that's really cool. Um, now you travel around as a passive investor, adventures with your podcast, and you interview other passive investors, and you talk to them about their story. How many interviews do you think you've done? And I also see that you're you've been on like bigger pockets and you're, you've got you got some traction in the world of podcasting.

Emma (00:06:15) - Yeah. So we just started our podcast in March of 23. So we were going, um, I was resisting for several years because I'm trying to retire on passive income, not create a new job or create a new business. And so we were syndicating apartment buildings and raising capital. And I always thought that a podcast was a huge part of that thought leadership platform and that marketing platform to be able to get the word out. And as a networking tool, we don't want our listeners just listening to the podcast and then never talking to us.

Emma (00:06:43) - We want to do business together. We want to create relationships and network. And that's the whole purpose behind the podcast. And I think a lot of people will hear guests on a podcast and they won't reach out because, oh, that person's too big or too famous. They won't want to talk to me. Why on earth are they doing podcasts otherwise if they don't want to talk to you? So reach out and network. And so I knew that it was important, but I was wishy washy on if I wanted to keep syndicating or if I was going to be able to pull off 100% passive investor, joint venture type of business. And so when we launched our private equity fund in, I think it was well, it was last summer, but we've been working on it for right around a year. It's a that's a long process to get all of that mapped out and legal documents done and all that. But we knew that we were diving into this private equity world is our really our only active income.

Emma (00:07:29) - And so what we did is I said, you know what? It's time to just bite the bullet. We're going to start a podcast. So we were leaving town like March 1st to go. We hiked the Arizona Trail. And so that was going to take us three months. And we knew that we needed to be doing something and have this marketing machine moving, because our partners were carrying really the business for us while we were gone. And so one thing that we could do was stockpile podcast episodes. And so between I think it was December or January, I'd have to go back and look at the first one. But somewhere around December, January, we recorded something like 32 episodes of content. Got them all edited. My husband, he's not working either. Like we're both. We both left the 9 to 5. He edited them all and uploaded them to Spotify so that they were just dropping once a week while we were gone. I didn't do any marketing. I didn't even post on LinkedIn like, hey, go check out this week's episode.

Emma (00:08:19) - They're just shopping once a week. And for the while, they were not getting any any traction. But I really believed that that was an opportunity for me to get this podcast off the ground in a way that was helpful to my business partners and to my business, and have the first couple that aren't going to do well anyway. Be patient. And I feel like when you're ready to start a business, you've already waited too long because you're not going to have any clients or customers or income. And so you need to start the business before you're ready. So those slow times, you don't care if you don't have any customers because you still have a job or you still have another company.

Josh (00:08:53) - Yeah, yeah. That's so good. The what you're doing is exactly what we had envisioned for I have a, you know, podcast show we travel around, and I have yet to do one from my RV, but that was part of the vision is like, all right, I'll make the wife happy. I'll buy the RV.

Josh (00:09:11) - I get to do my interviews through it. If I ever do a business meeting, I could pull up there, crash there. Anyways. So I think it's really cool what you're doing and is super smart to stockpile them because they're dropping. Um, before we hit record, we were in the, in the, in the green room and we were talking about like the world of podcasting. Everyone in there, mother, grandmother and, you know, everyone is going, oh, you have a podcast or I'm starting a podcast. Before you said yes to do in the podcast, was there resistance? Like, why does the world need one more freaking podcast?

Emma (00:09:46) - Yes, yes, because at first, when podcasting first was becoming a thing, especially during during Covid, it really it really took off and became a dominant, almost mainstream platform. But we'd been hearing about podcasts since the what I remember the first time was, was before even the iPhone came out, and I was trying to figure out how to get podcasts on my little iPad iPod.

Emma (00:10:06) - I haven't said that word in so long. iPod with the little dial on it. Yeah, the circle we own about podcast, and I couldn't figure out how to use the thing and get the podcast. So I mean, that's how long these podcasts have been a thing, but they really became dominant in 2020. So I know in 2018, when I first started my syndication business, it was already on the table of thinking about if I wanted to do it. But again, I wasn't waffling on the need for a podcast or the power of the podcast. I was waffling on the need for a business. Do do I want to scale a business and be hiring employees and be running, you know, a thousand units of apartment complexes in-house property management? When we try to raise capital from family offices. That was one of the questions we were frequently asked is how much equity is coming from the general partners, 10 to 20% from the actual managing partners. And the other question that would shut us down is, do you have integrated property management? And so I knew that we needed integrated property management if we really wanted to scale into family office or institutional type capital.

Emma (00:11:00) - And I had spent probably almost a year really looking into that and thinking, do I want to do this? Am I ready to commit to this? And the answer was no. And when I answered that question, no. Well, what did I need a podcast for? How much more money did I actually ever need to raise? Because if I wasn't going to syndicate this, why? Why would I spend all this time trying to build social media? I knew it was a 2 to 5 year commitment just to start one to get any traction. Now you can get more traction faster if you're willing to pay for some paid, um, paid placement services and ads and things like that. But for just organic reach 2 to 5 years is what everybody was recommending. And I just I just didn't want to do it. But when we pivoted and said, okay, my husband's now leaving his 9 to 5, we need some source of active income because passive income is very lumpy. It's it's it's feast or famine.

Emma (00:11:45) - And during the famine times, you don't know when the feast is coming again. And it's terrifying. And so what you're doing is even though you're maybe making more money than you've made in previous years, you you have these dead times where nothing's coming in and you don't know when the next feast is coming. And so you live and you scrimp and you're frugal. Wondering said, okay, well, we need to do something that is going to help us ease this transition from 9 to 5 W-2 to full time passive and be living basically on the cash flow from our investments. And so the natural answer to that was to start an equity fund. If you can raise capital, if you have access to capital, people bring you deals. And here's a perfect example. Put it on our podcast. We have a 560 fund accredited investors only. So I can talk about it as much as I want. Hey, we have a deal. We're doing this RV park outside of Dallas. It has amazing cash on cash return.

Emma (00:12:34) - Right. And you suddenly people are coming in and they're saying, hey, I won't invest in this, right? Because people think the amazing deal comes first and then the capital comes, but that's not the way it is at all. The reason we got the amazing deal. I didn't find that deal. Somebody brought it to me because they know that we raise capital. And so if you want amazing deals, you need to have an amazing ability to raise money. And people said if you can skip over residential, go straight to commercial, do that. And they said, if you can skip over commercial and go straight to a fund manager, do that. And if you can skip over fund manager and go straight to a limited partner because you have enough cash that you can invest and live off of that interest income or that those distributions, then you should skip and just do that. And so I looked at where I was on the ladder realistically, and I came up with I could be a fund manager.

Emma (00:13:18) - I started out with a few, you know, single doubles, got into syndication real fast, flamed out really fast, and I just knew where it was at was limited partner. But the step down the ladder from that was fund manager, because I didn't have enough cash to just be a limited partner, I needed to make some more income so that we could smooth out the lumpy income, and so we would have more money to invest. So we could we could retire early. So that was where the podcast became the reality. So kind of taking you through this thought process of, of the business and the and the the evolution, the purpose of the podcast has to come first. And if I didn't have a purpose, there was no way I was going to put that effort into it.

Josh (00:13:54) - Yeah, yeah, that's what is the outcome. So people will come to me, you know, we've we've built 15 or so podcasts of our own brands. We've sold some we've we've invested and done it for other people.

Josh (00:14:06) - And I always start with, why the hell are you doing this? Because this is a lot of work, right? Podcasting. And you mentioned that we're at a point where if you don't have a podcast, you know, on your brand and you're building a brand, it's almost like hurts you in the other side. Like it's important to have that because it builds thought leadership. You're reaching an audience. But the question that that we had is like, why are you doing this? And you thought about that before saying yes and pulling the trigger. You said, do we really want to commit to this? In that first year and there was no. And then. And then you. I love the way you put this man so many great things you said in that in your in your dialogue.

Emma (00:14:45) - There in my, in my monologue.

Josh (00:14:47) - And no, but I love the thing that you're like, if you could skip presidential, go to commercial, if you could skip commercial and go to and you laid out the path and you might have skipped too far and flamed out, had to back up a step, what was that process look like as you were kind of exploring that? Could you would you mind sharing some of that?

Emma (00:15:09) - Um, sure.

Emma (00:15:10) - So. We found our first commercial property and we had never had a rental. And so it was a 14 unit, I want to say, in my husband's hometown, near the small university where we met and his parents taught, and I knew the market very well, and I felt like it was a great deal. And we went to the bank and we had all this cash because we sold our house in Texas and moved to Utah. And I think at that time we were still renting, so we didn't even have a mortgage with zero debt, just sitting on this pile of cash. And so I said, I want to buy this apartment building, because growing up in a college town, you know, a lot of your rich farmer neighbors own these little apartment buildings in town for the students to live in. And so for him, that was a normal thing. And it didn't seem too farfetched that we could purchase something like this, but the bank wouldn't give us a loan because we had not even had a single rental at that point.

Emma (00:15:55) - We'd never done a seller, we'd never done a deal except for buying our own home. And they said, go get a partner to sign on this loan with you. And I didn't really know anybody that I felt comfortable because this was supposed to be a legacy property, one that we'd hold ourselves for many years. And I just didn't know anybody that I felt comfortable going into a deal of that size. There was one couple that we knew from Texas who had moved to Salt Lake a few years before we did, and we reached out to them, and they did look at it seriously. But in the end, they had something else they wanted to invest in that had better returns, and they didn't really know what they were doing either. And so it was it was a very, very frustrating process. And so I was sitting in a meeting and he said, if you can skip residential, go straight to commercial. I'm like, well, I tried that and it didn't really work. But I knew that that's where it was.

Emma (00:16:38) - And so, like I said, I kind of went backwards and bought some double, a triple some single family stuff, just whatever I could get for a decent wholesale deal. And then we ran out of money and I saw this house that I wanted to buy. I was like a triplex or something. And I told my husband, I said, I can't afford it because instead of flipping houses that was supposed to make us more money, I ended up keeping them as rentals because the numbers worked better as rentals. So now I have this little rental portfolio and it ate up all my cash. So it's cash flowing, but my cash is tied up in equity. And I just I said, I don't know how I'm going to do another deal. And he said, well, wasn't the whole point of going commercial and let's back up and remember what we were doing. And you've been distracted by getting experience that you forgot that you wanted to go commercial. And I say, that's true. He said, I thought you were supposed to be doing deals with other people's money.

Emma (00:17:26) - And that's still, I hate that phrase. I hate saying that because it makes it sound like, well, my skin in the game is my time and my experience, but you're the one who has to put all the money in, and I don't like that. It doesn't sit well with me. And so I just felt like, how do I really want to go deal with deals with other people's money? But then I saw something on Facebook. It was a 50 unit apartment building near my husband's hometown, in a town that we knew well. We didn't know Salt Lake at all, but we knew his town in Idaho, and I thought, I'm just going to underwrite it. I'm just going to look at it. I don't have to buy it, but I don't know how to really underwrite these deals. So I'm going to learn how. So I just started poking at it. And because it was off market, it was a friend of mine on Facebook who was like, hey, I'm selling my apartment building.

Emma (00:18:05) - And I met her at the local Reia. She had bought a building and the partners were not functioning well as a unit. It was kind of like buying a house from a divorced couple. And so we just started looking at that, and I had mentioned to several people at our local Reia that I'm looking for a commercial building. I can't sign on a loan, I don't know how to underwrite it, and I don't know how to raise money, but if I can find a deal, people were anxious. Say, I'll raise money for it. I'll sign on your loan if you bring me a deal. So I was almost like a bird dog, but because I had a little bit of cash left, I think I had like 30 grand at that point to invest from selling that house. I was going to put some money into it as well, and that's what kept me in the deal and didn't just get me bird dog out. And it's what allowed me to take a managing partner stake in that deal.

Emma (00:18:47) - So that was what got the commercial thing off the ground. We did a couple of buildings, a large development project that we sold. Once we got the shovel ready, permits for it, and that was burning me out. I just it was asset management meetings every day, twice a day. It just didn't feel passive. And plus I still had my little rentals to deal with. And I was like, this is again, not why I did this. And the real turning point was when I put an offer on the biggest building I'd ever done. I think it was a 220 something unit in Texas. And again, Texas. I know Texas, right? And we weren't able to buy it. We couldn't raise the money. Our earnest money was going hard. We lost our our loan guarantor because he had another loan that he was on with that same lender. And and it wasn't performing. And so we just we just kind of between a rock and a hard place, we spent all this money on legal due diligence.

Emma (00:19:37) - I mean, it was a very expensive period of time because you have to walk every single unit. You have to hire the lawyers to negotiate the contracts. And my earnest money partners lost their money. So I was determined to pay them back. And so we walked away from that. And most of the money that had made off of the sale of two of our little buildings in little Rock went towards paying off all those losses, and I really had to step back and say, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? And to discover in that process that I was relieved that I didn't buy it, because I knew that every building you buy has a five year commitment. To run the thing, and I had the most experience on the team. They needed me to run the thing. It wasn't even like I could sort of kind of on the side, like they wanted me to run it, and I just didn't feel. I just didn't feel capable. I don't know, I just maybe I was, maybe I wasn't, but the fact that we didn't buy it really shook me up.

Emma (00:20:27) - And I completely pivoted at that point, and I said, I got into this for for passive income to spend more time with my family. And instead what I did is I started a business and my husband said, I don't understand why you want me to quit my job so bad. If we're just trading out my job for your job, because I'll go from being busy to not that busy and you're just going to busy and busier. Like, I need to scale my business so my husband can quit his job. And that really put it in perspective for me as well to say, like, why are we doing this and not that? Starting a fund is easy either. Raising capital takes one by one, drop by drop relationships, and it's incredibly time consuming. But at the same time, I feel like I'm better suited for it. I like it better. And when people know you raise capital, they just bring you amazing deals. So I prefer matchmaking. Like, here's a great deal. Here are some people with money.

Emma (00:21:20) - I got some money, I found some partners with some money and some experience. Let's put that all together and go do something amazing. So that's where we ended up on our trajectory. And I'll tell you one other story. I was at a. Entrepreneurs mastermind. It wasn't for real estate investors, just high net worth, high income earning entrepreneurs. And one of the speakers there had a very large private equity fund for multifamily. Like we're talking double billions. I think it was like $35 billion of assets under management, 4000 employees, like it was a big, big fund. And I was talking to him in his family. And my hesitance to start a business again. It's the same thing. Like, oh, starting fun sounds like a grind. It's a lot of work. It sounds like a business. And he said, well, what did you do before you were an apartment syndicator? And said, I was a photographer. And he said, how much money did you make? I'm like, I don't know, part time, like 30 K a year.

Emma (00:22:11) - He said, where did your income ceiling go when you decided to become a syndicator? I said, oh, just blew like ten x that, right? Maybe more. And because I think I, I ten x that in like my second year when we sold that development project and we sold the development and we sold two little buildings in and, and that was ten x the second year. And I was like, well, where can we go from here? He said, you are going to almost infinity your income cap as a fund manager. It's the same as the photographer to the syndicator and the syndicator to the fund manager, he said. Why are you if you're spending time on anything, are you spending time on anything else? And that I was still trying to syndicate at that point. I was having some doubts, and it was right before we lost that deal. And after we lost that deal, I went back to that and I said, you know what? If I'm going to spend time on something, it's going to be high paid and it's going to be worth the amount of time I'm spending away from my kids because I've had that realization several years before as a photographer.

Emma (00:23:06) - I started out as the budget neighborhood photographer because not just rich people deserve to have nice photos, and I was doing affordable photography. And then it became so time consuming, and I was spending all this time away from my kids so that strangers could have pretty pictures. And I thought, what am I doing? And so I started charging more and started getting more into that luxury, or at least high end photography, because my kids were more important than strangers, pretty pictures and had that same realization. If I'm going to spend spending time at something, taking time, it's taking time away from something else in. In my case, my kids have a lot of kids. And so I felt like, let's just let's just make this as high value, highest and best use of my time as possible. And that was where we came in on the fund idea. So that's where that's the direction that we're going.

Josh (00:23:56) - And I love your story. My kids are more important than strangers pictures. That's such a good.

Josh (00:24:03) - It's so. We don't when we're when we're driving a business or grinding, right? We're like, oh, I'm going to retire. And then I'll spend time with our kids. But by the time you're retired, the kids are of the house and you missed the purpose of why you're doing it. And you're like, damn, I missed it. Because if I charged more, I could have spent more time. I could say no to taking on another client. I could have done this. When it comes to the psychology of, I want to make great photography accessible to everybody, so I'm going to charge low fees. With that comes a lot of headaches, right? With that comes a lot of grinding. Do you raise your fees? You now had more time and more money in your pocket. Do you think a lot of entrepreneurs get into these situations and business or investing or whatever? And it's an insecurity of why they charge low or fear of why they're getting started, and then they might claim it to be, you know, this autonomous thing where they just want to bless the world with their service.

Josh (00:25:03) - Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Emma (00:25:06) - I think all of the above, because Walmart positions itself as a low cost leader and they're crushing it. But sure sounds like a grindy kind of business. Yeah. And so I think that what you're asking, if you're going to do a volume business or you're going to do a high ticket, lower volume business, it's the difference between a Honda and a maserati. You have to sell a lot more Honda's than Maseratis. And I don't think that luxury is necessarily where it's at, because think that can be unstable in other ways or economics that go into each of these decisions. But looking at where you fall on the value add scale, how much is it reasonable to get paid for that position? And are you delivering the product that what you're getting paid equals? So for example, my husband's an IT guy and he wants to go find a new job. And so he starts poking around on indeed. And he sees the IT guys are making somewhere. You know senior for 125 to up to 200.

Emma (00:26:05) - And so he has to figure out like okay how where on that scale am I. Do I deserve the 125 or do I deserve the 200. And so he went after some 200 jobs and he had a lot of interviews and he wasn't getting any offers. He said, well, you know, because of this, this, this and this. And he said, well, I can't really easily fix that without more experience. So then he started going after the 150 positions and he kind of just found out, like where he was on that value add scale, because you certainly not going to go do senior IT stuff for 85,000 a year because they're they're getting paid. 125 and so he's at least going to be coming at 125. When I was looking at the quality of the photos coming out of my camera, it was not a luxury photographer and I wasn't willing to be one. All the lights, all the marketing, all the staff, all that. No, I didn't want to do that. But I knew that what I was looking at on the back of my camera and in my Photoshop was better than affordable basement, low cost leader.

Emma (00:26:53) - I felt myself that I was a little above average and so I priced myself accordingly. And those were the clients that attracted.

Josh (00:27:02) - I love the the realism of taking a look and saying, where do I fit? Because we, you know, like I'm an ego driven guy and I could look at that 201 25 range. I'm like, let's go for the 200, let's go for the 250. And what would happen is I would spin my wheels. And the honesty is I'm probably more the 150 in this area. Right. And I could always expand and grow. I'm still young. I still got game, you know, time in the action. But but looking and giving yourself a sober self assessment of going this where I'm at and I'll build from here. I think it's wise, it's humble. But people say.

Emma (00:27:34) - Comparison is the thief of joy, and that is true. But the only way you can give yourself a realistic assessment is to compare what is normal. What are other people doing? What kinds of photos are other people taking? What kind of buildings are the people buying? Who are making the money that I want to be making? There's a lot of comparison, a lot of judgment calls that go into all of that.

Emma (00:27:53) - And so the trick is really being able to compare without letting it steal your joy. And if you are coming in in a realistic central place, like you said, takes humility. What that also does is steal your joy. It creates some discontentment with your current space. And if you can't fight against that and say, I'm going to make myself better, then it's just really depressing. And you also have to ask yourself, how much better do I want to make myself? If I wanted to be a bikini model, could I? Well, I don't know. I'm 47 years old and I'm like kind of out of shape. But if I wanted to be like a masters bikini competitor, I could go hire a coach and I could be super strict and all that. Would it really be worth the effort? Not really mean. So I'm happy with this soccer mom physique, right? You just have to say, like, how far do I want to go? What are my goals? And if I really wanted to be a masters bikini competitor, I'm sure I have the confidence in myself that I could go out and make that happen.

Emma (00:28:48) - And that's what it is. I don't want to make that happen, but am confident that if I felt that inside of myself, I could go do it. And I think that's really the key where it's not stealing your joy. You're able to look at it realistically with humility and also create goals that are achievable, that are both motivating and achievable. Now somebody might say, well, if you if you want to be a bikini competitor and you miss, you're still going to be in better shape than you are right now. And so you should set goals that you don't think you can reach. And that's one school of thought. It works for a lot of people, and it doesn't work for a lot of other people. So figuring out your your key space of motivation is also very important.

Josh (00:29:31) - Yeah that's interesting. The the the journey you've taken, you figured out a lot of stuff you don't want to do. Yeah. To land into the place that you do want to do. Right. By the way, I bet your your photography on your you know, your asset deals are just incredible.

Josh (00:29:49) - Like they're probably spot on when you take your marketing pictures and such like that. So that's cool. That's true. You could add that to your your portfolio, but you figured out a lot of things that you don't want to. And then you sat with someone who, you know, wealthy individual who's who made the success, who looked at your skill set and said, why would you do anything else other than your strength, if especially it's there's no cap on income. You're good at it. Why the hell would you do anything else? Right? What if you told them, screw you and you just, like, ignored that and got into that five year deal where you're doing all the other things that you didn't want to do, where would your mindset, where would your family like, what would what would be the the effect of that?

Emma (00:30:35) - So I kind of, in polite words, did say screw you at the conference. And then we went and tried to do that because we were putting that deal together at that conference.

Emma (00:30:44) - And then the deal fell through. And so I called him. He lived in the same town as we did. So when we got back to back to home, I took him out for lunch and he spent probably three hours with me. You know, this billionaire spent three hours with me trying to talk me into this. And at the end of it he said, you know what? It doesn't really sound like you're willing to do the work.

Josh (00:31:05) - Ho ho ho ho. How did that.

Josh (00:31:07) - Feel?

Emma (00:31:08) - It felt liberating because he said, if this isn't something that you are driven to do and you're not really willing to put in the work, then maybe it's a good idea that you don't do this. So I walked away from that, and I spent like a year lost because I knew that that wasn't a good time getting emotional. I. I knew that I wasn't where I wanted to be, and I knew that I didn't have the lifestyle that I wanted to have. Um, but looking at the amount of work that it was going to take to get where I want it to be, it was kind of like setting myself up for a bikini contest.

Josh (00:31:38) - Scary.

Josh (00:31:39) - Yeah.

Josh (00:31:40) - Yeah. Why were you why were you emotional there? Talk. Talk to me about that.

Emma (00:31:45) - Because we're still not where we want to be. You know, it's easy to look on Instagram and be like, oh, she's traveling around in an RV and going to Hawaii for, you know, with all her homeschooled kids and just living the life, right? No. Like like I said, the lumpy income is terrifying. And there are a lot of good days and there are a lot of bad days. Um, there are a lot of days where I feel lost and it's depressing. And when you're depressed, you can't work. You can't work to the fullest potential. I mean, you think you want to pick up the phone and cold call investors on a day where you feel like a loser?

Josh (00:32:14) - Yeah.

Josh (00:32:16) - Mindset is so important when you're talking about collecting dollars. It's. You have to be you have to be positive. You have to have an optimistic, you know, view.

Josh (00:32:24) - You have to have hope. You have to have excitement. And I'm telling you, if you're scared because, you know, last last year's income was great. This year's income is not there. It's scary.

Emma (00:32:36) - Yeah. Well, it's kind of what you said before, which we didn't really touch on, is like, do people undervalue themselves underprice themselves because they are feeling too self critical? Yes, that definitely happens. Does that happen to me? Yes. Do I suffer from imposter syndrome? Yes, I think everybody does. But I think particularly women, probably either more intensely or certainly more frequently experience this. And so being able to price yourself or reach for goals that, that you that you want. Yeah, it's it's it's a tricky balance between optimism and pessimism because I know people who are toxically optimistic. Everything's going to work out. They don't really know how. There's really no plan. Right? Or they don't really ever give you any actionable advice because they it's the opposite of catastrophizing and the negative person is going to catastrophize an overly positive person is going to whitewash.

Emma (00:33:31) - And so where do you fall in that? Oftentimes you just need an outside observer to tell you, like this billionaire to say, like, it doesn't sound like you're willing to put in the work. I needed him to tell me that. So I didn't go start a fund that wasn't the right time. And two years later, whatever it was, I just went back to that conference again. That was the one we were attending in Hawaii, and he wasn't there. But a lot of the same people were there that I had met on that very first conference. And what a what a difference to be able to be with that same group of people and analyze my progress over a three year period of time and talking to them and seeing where they were, how I progress, how they progressed, there's something about just checking in with a third party to get some real feedback, yet at the same time delivered with tact and love.

Josh (00:34:16) - Yeah, no, it's so good seeing where you measure up. Like I agree with you, I'm not in the game of comparison, right? Like it's just you're always going to lose because I know, I know some billionaires, there's no way I could keep up with them.

Josh (00:34:29) - Right? If we go out to dinner and I buy the meal, like, I took a billionaire out to dinner the other day, and I bought the meals 500 bucks for me. I'm like, oh, I don't like spending 500 bucks for a meal. Yeah, but I wanted to bless him. But the sacrifice, like $500 meal for me versus $500 meal for him, for him, it would have been like, oh, here you go. Keep the change. For me, it was like. I had to put that in my budget. Right. Had to pay attention to that. So comparison is a is can be such a harmful trap. However, and I love how you did this. However, it allows you to measure like just to measure of where you're at. If you're looking to excel. That's that's what I think.

Josh (00:35:10) - Yeah.

Josh (00:35:11) - Um, but there is a, there is a trap to it and you got to be careful about that.

Josh (00:35:15) - Well, like.

Emma (00:35:15) - Anything, there's a trap.

Emma (00:35:16) - There's a trap in real estate. How many people do you know is I lost everything in 2008, I declared bankruptcy. There's a trap in real estate, but yet we keep doing it. So why do we keep doing things that are risky? Why do we do anything that's risky? Because the reward is worth it.

Josh (00:35:30) - The reward is worth it. Well. The the idea of passive income, the idea of passive investor, the idea of entrepreneurship in small business ownership is. So that way we can have a taste of freedom, right? And we could create our own future. We're the only people who will work, you know, 5:00 in the morning to nine at night to avoid a 9 to 5 right hour. Entrepreneurs. So we're doing it. But man, it's hard.

Emma (00:35:59) - I don't want to be an entrepreneur forever though.

Josh (00:36:03) - We move from, you know, trading time for dollars, W-2 or whatever. And then we move into the world of entrepreneurship. And sometimes we have to go back and forth a few times, and then we we move from entrepreneur to maybe having an exit or having some good cash flow.

Josh (00:36:18) - And then we move to investor. Right. Like that's the that's the path that we all wished. Well, I wish to take, you know, full time investor. Um, man, I love your story. And thank you for being so real. Yeah. With that. That was cool. A lot of people just, you know, um, just keep a mask up. And I really appreciated you showing emotion in, in this conversation, but. But back to deals, man. I could have gone on a rabbit trail there. I'm not going to do that. Um, being in this game, you're you now are actually tell us where you're at and some of the new things that have come out of your journey and out of your personal growth, like where are you at? What are you guys doing? And how can we help?

Emma (00:37:02) - Okay, so I heard a quote the other day and maybe everybody's heard this before, but it was if you if you inspire me without teaching me, you frustrate me.

Emma (00:37:12) - So there are nuts and bolts in the strategies and tactics that you use in order to get where somebody is that is inspires you. Oftentimes those those tactics are lacking. And let's go back to the bikini competition example. I see that person winning that contest or competing in that contest. And I think, I think I could probably do that right. But I have no idea how. And I don't hire a coach, I don't read a book I don't get on YouTube. I don't talk to other people doing it. I just look at it and say and say, if you say there's no way I can do that, you'll never try, right? So dead in the water right there. Non-starter. But if you look at it and say, I think I could do that, but I don't know how, that's also very frustrating because you are here, you want to be there and you don't know how to get there. And so I love that you asked this question about, you know, what? I'm what I'm working on right now and where we're going, what I learned, because this is, this is the part of the interview where we can start talking about the tactics and things that we actually do and have to know in order to progress.

Emma (00:38:07) - And so the first thing that I learned, let's go back to that very first property. I got to learn how to run numbers. This is a a finance business. And you must be comfortable with the financial measurements, spreadsheets, ratios, documents, whatever you want to call it. You must be comfortable sitting around the table and looking at finances or even doing your own finances. At first I forced myself to learn how to do it. I sat with people at conferences who were good at this, and I would sit there afterwards into the night and looking at their spreadsheets on their laptops, sitting next to them for hours. People who were good at this and who were willing to spend time with me, showing me how to do this. How do you screen a deal in 30 minutes or less? Okay. Let's say it's screened. How do you get through that? How long does it take you to get through that process? What things are you researching? I remember one time I was in a conference.

Emma (00:38:59) - It was a smaller group, and so the presenter knew a lot of us already and he said, oh, so-and-so sitting over here, you know, the spreadsheet genius, the financial golden boy or whatever, he said. And I looked her. I didn't know who this person was. And so as soon as we had a break for the water break or whatever you want to call it, when it came back into the room, my husband was sitting in one chair and I didn't go sit back with my husband. I went over and sat next to a financial golden boy and just sat next to him, and eventually started up a conversation. Eventually I'm leaning over his shoulder and then we get start talking and he's showing me his spreadsheet and he's showing me what is he's so passionate about and teaching me. And he actually ended up custom making a tool for me for the CEO version, because his was so many levers and so in-depth and so crazy. I'm like, not average investor now we're going to use that.

Emma (00:39:44) - He said, okay, that's good feedback. What would you use? Well, let me tell you about it. So then suddenly he's creating me a tool and I'm forcing myself to learn to use it. And he wants to sell this tool and I'm guinea pigging it for him. So these are the kinds of things that I had to do to pay my dues at the beginning. Am I a financial guru? No. Am I a finance guru? No. Am I ever going to be? No. I don't have a finance degree. I don't really actually feel that passionate about about the actual numbers. I feel passionate about what the numbers can do for me, what they can do for my investors, what they can do for the success of the project, where all these people live and are depending on you to provide them great, affordable, safe, clean housing. That's what excites me about numbers, but I had to just sit there and find ways to learn this. I'm watching YouTube videos. I bought that calculator and forced myself to run deals.

Emma (00:40:31) - Or at least once a week I'd find garbage on like loop net or something, and I'd force myself to run it through once a week. Everybody says if you're in residential, analyze one deal per day and commercial. I set a goal to analyze fully underwrite one deal per week because it takes longer. And plus, at the beginning I didn't know what I was doing, so doing one deal per day. I love the Bigger Pockets calculator for this. The thing that is bigger pockets calculator cannot do are complicated ownership structures. While you have LP splits, they can tell you the total returns, but they can't break it down to what goes to the investor. So you can see investor level returns, which of course are always going to be lower. Product returns are higher. And then because you have to split that between the managers and the limited partners, that's going to be lower. But you don't know how much you have to be able to break that down and to share with your investors exactly what their returns are going to be.

Emma (00:41:16) - And you have to see what your returns are going to be, because if they're not good enough that you're going to get a decent cut, you're not going to put the work in to executing that business plan, because you're paying everything out to your GP's because they need to see these numbers in order to invest. And then there's only this much left over for you. I would never invest in a deal like where the GP wasn't getting paid, because then they take their foot off the gas when it really matters, and when it gets hard, it's easier for them to walk away because it was like, oh, this is a lot of work and and all of that. And so I feel like learning the numbers and the finance is just you just have to do it. Now if you're going to be a limited partner, do you have to attack it at that level? No. You probably need to spend 5 to 10 hours total learning how to read a pro forma and figuring out if this deal is is conservatively under.

Emma (00:42:01) - Written or not, because everybody will say the underwrite conservatively. And many times that's just not true. And so you're looking at what underlying assumptions in the spreadsheet always ask for. A spreadsheet are going to tell you whether it's conservative and there's like there are probably ten of them and not all of them are going to be there in every single deal because they're all different. But looking for roughly ten, you know, is their exit cap rate higher than their entry cap rate? What is a cap rate. So your big four cap rate, internal rate of return equity, multiple cash on cash return, the time that the deal is going to be held. I have a little book that I put together. I haven't even released it yet. That explains all of these because I was like, okay, if I'm asking my limited partners to put ten hours in to learning how to invest in these deals for the first time, what resources am I providing? So I just wrote it all down. I did a like a YouTube live or a live thing where people were just asking me a zillion questions, and I took that video afterwards, and I made a little book out of it, because I feel like it needs to be all in one place.

Emma (00:42:57) - So those kinds of financial things are very, very, very important that people learn how to do. And this is where they say, I don't have time. I don't have time. You don't have ten hours. That's now I can quantify it and say, you don't have ten hours over the course of the next six months, over the course of the next year. That's not about time. It's about now I know.

Josh (00:43:18) - Choice.

Emma (00:43:18) - When they say I don't have time, that's not really what they're saying. Because not only am I only asking for a quantifiable ten hours, but I have a book right here that explains it all. And you can have a free call with me whenever you want, and we can go through all these questions. It's no longer about time. And if people are still making that excuse that don't have time, it's time to dig a level deeper. Why don't you have time? Well, I don't have time because I have a job. I don't have time because I have kids.

Emma (00:43:46) - I don't have time because I'm married. I don't have time because I run my own business, I don't have time, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. The list can go on. You know, I've heard I spent a lot of time coaching my kids sports team. I volunteer at my church and. I had a friend one time. Where I was frustrated with my daughter. I said she never hangs out with me. I invite her to a lot of things and she never says that she can come. And I said, I understand, I understand she's got five kids. She's gone back to school recently and I get it that she's busy. So maybe I'm just asking too much of her. And my daughter looked at me and said, you just went back to school. You have six kids and you have a business. What's her excuse? And I was like, maybe she doesn't like me then, right? So I don't have time. Excuse. It gets real, real thin when you dive in and really think about what is important to me.

Emma (00:44:37) - What do I want? And suddenly you realize that if you dive down a couple more layers, you're going to come to some stuff that. Is powerful, maybe scary, but you're never going to get what you want. If you don't go there.

Josh (00:44:52) - Yeah. Super cool. This is such a good place to to remind people. Where's your podcast? Because I think listening into your story and how you educate and how you talk about things is, is really good. So one more time, where can people find your podcast?

Emma (00:45:08) - My podcast is on Spotify and iTunes and my best radio marketing voice. I actually just take speech therapy to learn how to do this voice, because when I talk in my normal voice, it hurts so bad. I couldn't have a speaking job, so maybe that's a different story, but it's on Spotify and podcasts. It's called Passive Income Adventures, and I also have a YouTube channel called Guest Passive Income Adventures, where we post every podcast. And the YouTube channel might be a little bit more fun because we also do like shorts of the stuff that we're up to.

Emma (00:45:34) - So we went to the Daytona Bike Tober fest the other night, so we have a little short up there. We were in Yosemite recently, so just kind of keeping up on the fun stuff that we're doing. So podcasts everywhere that you can find podcasts, because my husband's an IT guy and he made sure that it was everywhere.

Josh (00:45:48) - Very cool. And for this book, when will this e-book be available? And for potential investors in the in the community who want to take a look at the the e-book and maybe have a conversation, where could people find that? When will that be sent to the world? Okay, I.

Emma (00:46:02) - Have another YouTube channel called High Rise. It's Emma Powell, 28, is the the tag but it's it's Emma Powell high rise group. And I put up for free videos there that we are in the process of taking down to make an online course out of it. But they're still free right now. If you jump in there it's four hours. So it's four of your ten right there and you can jump on that YouTube channel.

Emma (00:46:24) - I probably should put them on a playlist over on Passive Income Adventures, because I'm not really doing much with the other channel anymore. So you can get the lessons there. And those are the lessons that I used to write the book in the first place. But you'll have like a human kind of walking you through it. And like I said, those are totally free. The online course will probably also be free, but we're just going to host it on our platform. And then I think we actually have the short version. It's like 25 pages as a lead magnet, like, you know, putting your information and download this free PDF. So if you want to put in your information and download the free PDF, I think that's at Rise Capital investments.com or retire with rise. We have all sorts of vanity ones. But anyway so you can I think get that as a lead magnet is ready to go. And then I'm working on the full one is like 100 pages but it's a PowerPoint presentation. It's not like dense text.

Emma (00:47:13) - So I will be sure to put that on my website when that's ready to go.

Josh (00:47:17) - Super cool. During this interview, there's probably some questions that I should have asked you, and we've covered a ton of different topics, but like, is there a is there a topic that you would love to talk about? And we've got some time left before we say goodbye. Is there something that you would just love to? It doesn't even have to be about real estate or deals in general.

Emma (00:47:35) - Well, I think there are two things we talked about in the green room that we didn't bring up. So you asked if there are any questions that I didn't want to answer. And I said, the only question I've ever refused to answer was about food. And it was one of those lightning round things where it's like, you know, what's your bucket list or whatever? And it's like, what's your favorite food? And I just hit me hard and I sat there and I just said, you know what? That's just a loaded question.

Emma (00:47:56) - We're going to move on to the next one because you asked a loaded question. You have to stick around for the loaded answer. Yeah. And so I think that there if I'm going to look back, there are certain turning points in my life that made me more willing to stick my neck out, take risks, and be different. I don't want to be different on purpose, like some people. They just want to do the opposite. They're they have a contrarian type of personality and I have no problem with that. It's just that's not my personality. I want to just kind of do whatever's most efficient, and if something's not working for me, I'm completely willing to pivot and do something weird. I'm also willing to do something completely conventional. And so the contrarians think I'm maybe a little boring. And, you know, the mainstream people think I'm a little weird. And so I tend to just do whatever is going to work for me. So that's my personality. So when I was 20 years old, right before I got married, I went in to the doctor and she diagnosed me with a metabolic disorder that was going to make it difficult for me to get pregnant.

Emma (00:48:54) - And don't worry, it all worked out. I have six kids, but it was also going to make it very difficult for me to maintain a healthy weight, and that was kind of scary. And there's some other symptoms she saw. And and when I got married, four of my sisters were unsuccessfully trying to get pregnant. And that was a scary time for me. And so I asked her, I said, what what do I do? And a lot of women have this. It's something like 10 to 20% of the population has. This makes you more likely to develop diabetes and thyroid disorders and celiac disease and some other crazy stuff like that. And so I said, well, what do I do? And back then there wasn't really much to do. She said, you just have to eat a diabetic diet for the rest of your life. And at that time, a diabetic diet was something like 300g of carbs a day, like whole grain lean meats. And so I was doing all of that, and I was still gaining weight.

Emma (00:49:44) - And it was it was really it was really tough. And so my husband said, well, why don't we try something really crazy? And he brings home this vegan diet, some book of vegan diets. And we had a couple of them and we were vegan for ten years, and that made us weird. But it was working. It was keeping my weight under control, but I was still really struggling with infertility. I was able to have some kids, but, you know, it was it was a very medical, not very, but like very conscientious. And so and then I started getting away on the vegan diet and I just didn't know what else to do. I just didn't know where else to go. And so I just told my husband, I said, let's just pick a new diet, just go to the bookstore, flip to the back of the book. Whatever it looks like has good recipes. Just get that one and we'll just do that. They all work right? They all will work if you just people can't stick to them.

Emma (00:50:29) - So we completely switched over and became like high protein, almost carnivore, you know, bodybuilder diet. We did that for a few years and and little by little we started getting lower and lower carb and I started getting pregnant. And so I found out, like when we started adding fat back into our diet, that my hormones were fixed.

Josh (00:50:48) - Like.

Emma (00:50:49) - Reverse the condition, basically. And that was like a wow, diet and lifestyle and exercise actually means something. So now I'm on the super weird diet. I'm almost carnivore, very low carb. Sometimes I can't do it because it's very difficult. I've been doing it for. Ten, 11 years. And sometimes I just can't take it anymore. And I'll go crazy and I will just be like, whatever. Especially when something bad happens. Like when my nephew passed away or when my dad died and I just started whatever, I'm going to do whatever I want, right? And then I'll gain like £30 and then have to admit it. So food and nutrition and diet like has been loaded for me for the past 27 years.

Emma (00:51:33) - And we tried some really crazy extreme stuff. But as much as I hate it, even even where we are right now, we come in and they're like, oh, we set aside a plate of dinner for you and it's like stuffed pasta or something like that. For some, I'm not supposed to be in gluten because I have thyroid disease and I'm celiac and and oh, and it just makes it a big deal. You're not going to eat. You don't like pizza, you don't like noodles. Like, I'm like, I really love them a lot and I want to eat that really bad.

Josh (00:51:58) - Yeah, yeah. I went for ice cream yesterday with my family. I took my kids out for ice cream and they're all eating. They're like, dad, what are you going to get? I'm like, nothing like you don't like ice cream. I love ice cream. It does not love me.

Josh (00:52:08) - Yeah, right.

Emma (00:52:09) - And people ask me about like, oh, why can't you have carbs? I said, well, I'm allergic to them.

Emma (00:52:13) - They're like, really? You're allergic to them? What do they do? I said, they make me swell up like swell up how? I'm like, they make me fat. You want to ask more questions? I try to just I try to keep it on the down low. I'm definitely not like a keto evangelist, right? Um, but several of my siblings have been diagnosed with diabetes as we becoming middle aged. And the ones who thought I was crazy for being keto are now keto, so whatever. I mean, I just feel like at a certain point you just have to be willing to do what works. And I've had to do the same in investing. There are a lot of people even like single family residential investors, who find out that I'm syndicating your book. That's the fastest recipe to go to jail. What why why would why would you say that? Like, I hope you know what you're doing. Because, you know, the Securities Exchange Commission will come after you if you do this wrong.

Emma (00:53:01) - And I said, well, I better make sure that I do it right then it's it's definitely you're going to face this kind of opposition and being a weirdo anytime you try and climb out of the crab bucket. Yeah, be prepared for it. Be prepared for it. Even people who are trying to be supportive are saying things that are not supportive, like, wow, we're really worried about you. Like that's they think they're being kind and supportive, but it's just not. So being tolerant with people who don't aunt, aunt, aunt, where and don't even want to say like the same place as far as like I'm farther ahead or their father. I'm enlightened and they're not. That's not what I'm saying at all. I just mean in the same place. We're not making a value judgment or a judgment on why people are doing what they're doing or where, why they are, where they are. It's just not the same. So when I hang out with homeschoolers, they think homeschooling is awesome and they really give me a lot of pats on the back, right? But when I hang out with people who think homeschooling is stupid or they tried it, it didn't work, suddenly it's no, no, there's a lot of.

Emma (00:53:58) - And so I just have to learn if I'm hanging out with somebody who thinks what I'm doing is weird, stupid, risky or whatever, I just have to say, you know what? I'm glad that's working for you, and I'm genuinely glad that that's working for them. And I'm genuinely glad that I found something that's working for me. So that the food thing, I think really from a very early I was 20 with that diagnosis really has shaped a lot of what I've turned into in the years since.

Josh (00:54:24) - Yeah, that's such a cool story. Well, Emma, we're out of time and I'm so glad you got to talk about this and answer the question that you refuse to answer. You know, answer on another podcast show you did a year on the deal, Scott. It's a loaded conversation, not a loaded baked potato, because we don't do that, right. We don't do.

Josh (00:54:41) - Potatoes.

Josh (00:54:42) - So, so good to have you on the show, ladies and gentlemen. In the audience, as always, reach out to our guests, say thank you for being on the show.

Josh (00:54:50) - Download the e-books, download their, you know, their their videos and take a look at what they're doing. All their contact information will be in the show notes right this minute. Go to passive investor adventures. Right.

Emma (00:55:03) - Passive income adventures.

Josh (00:55:04) - Passive income adventures on all.

Emma (00:55:07) - Social media platforms.

Josh (00:55:08) - Come and take a listen to their podcast show. Hear their stories as they travel around in their in their fifth wheel. Once it gets prepared and hear their stories and learn and maybe do some deals together, if you in the audience have a deal that you'd like us to take a look at, head on over to the deal. scout.com the deal scout.com, fill out a quick form and maybe even get you on the show next. So then we'll talk to you all on the next episode.

Josh (00:55:32) - Everybody.