The Doctor's Dilemma with Michael McManus

Josh (00:00:02) - Hey, good day, everybody. Welcome to the deal, Scout. On today's show, we're going to have a conversation with a part time doctor. We're going to hear his story and kind of talk about how he is a work optional, do things because he wants to do kind of guy. Doctor Mike, welcome to the show.

Doctor Mike (00:00:22) - Thank you, Josh, Good to be here.

Josh (00:00:24) - Yeah. So I'm reading through, you know, the pre show notes and we've had a conversation in the green room, but you said that you're moving from the full time doctor force into kind of working optional space. What the heck does that mean?

Doctor Mike (00:00:39) - Well, with a lot of doctors, I think the you know, you begin with this idea of you're going to help people. It's going to be this super rewarding career, and then it turns into being not as much fun over time as you'd hoped, that the administrative headaches, the the bureaucracy, the regulatory, the insurance, the documentation, and it's not really fun anymore.

Doctor Mike (00:01:08) - And that's why there's kind of a pandemic of burnout amongst physicians. And what what I've seen with myself and other docs is when you hit this point where now you don't have to work as a doctor and you can limit your schedule to a timeline that you can enjoy, that you you start enjoying being a doctor again and then it becomes work optional that you start choosing to do it rather than having to do it.

Josh (00:01:39) - Man What kind of doctor did you become?

Doctor Mike (00:01:43) - I am a urologist, so. Or urologic surgeon. We specialize in the urinary tract and the male reproductive tract.

Josh (00:01:52) - So if I went back in time to year 16 years old and say, one day you're going to have guys walk into your office and this is what you're going to be doing when you're 16, is that what would you have said? I would have.

Doctor Mike (00:02:03) - Said you're not.

Josh (00:02:06) - Exactly so so thank you for taking care of people. Right. So thank you for becoming a doctor and serving the community. But I see that often. I've interviewed a lot of doctors.

Josh (00:02:18) - I was in the medical field myself. And the the high potential for burnout is massive because of we get in it to serve people. But then you got tons of paperwork, you got the bureaucracy, you're dealing with insurance companies and government, and you're dealing with all these things and you're like, Man, I signed up to help people and it limits us. But you've you've kind of gone at it a different approach. If you don't have to do it and work there, it adds a new level of freedom and maybe joy. Is that right? Like explain the the process that that happened for you.

Doctor Mike (00:02:52) - So yeah, I mean, it really came through burnout. And it's interesting that there was a lot of thought with doctors. If you go back over the past 20 years that with the move towards being employed and, you know, versus your small private practices to bigger groups, that you were taking all the administrative headaches off their plate and you could just focus on being a doctor. The reality is, is doctors lost control, so you don't have control of your workflow.

Doctor Mike (00:03:23) - You don't have control of your schedule, you don't have control of all these things. So those things that that we thought would decrease doctors stress by getting rid of have actually become worse. And so like the original idea of electronic medical records, like, oh, this will be so great because, you know, you don't have to find charts, everything will be right there. The reality is now is because there's only a handful of approved EHRs or electronic health records, you don't have a choice. And they change things in there like, you know, like every other program you use, you an update goes in and all your buttons got moved. And and when those buttons are a workflow that you're you're working through and you know the the neurology behind it of how the brain sees patterns and you do things subconsciously without thinking about it. When you start to move those buttons, it's actually a huge disruption to your workflow. And so you have those frustrations on almost a daily basis and, you know, and then it used to be that, you know, doctors were in private practice and hospitals really wanted you to operate there.

Doctor Mike (00:04:38) - And so it worked on more of a business model where let us serve you and give you a great experience which allowed you to take the best care of your patients. Now that switch to an employee employer model where you have admin people saying, Oh, this is the way we're going to do it because it's better We we had a meeting and. Our data says this is better, but that data misses all of the nuances. Maybe not all of them, but a lot of them. So it just builds these layers of frustration. And so for me, those were the things that really started weighing and became highly frustrating and led through a process of burnout and then trying to recover and, you know, all kinds of coping mechanisms and good ones and bad ones. And but through that process going, okay, I've found a way to be and do my job, that it's okay. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Um, but I'm not going to be able to do this till I'm 70, you know? And you look at some of the old dogs who worked for forever.

Doctor Mike (00:05:51) - And so I got to find something else to replace my income.

Josh (00:05:56) - Yeah, I see a lot of doctors have a lot of doctor friends. I've interviewed a lot of doctors over the years or and and or high earners. And when I what I see with high earners are high earning potential make a lot of money and then lifestyle increases right you've spent your your whole life getting this degree. You racked up a bunch of debt and then they tell you your house is your best investment. So they get this big ass house and now they're working to pay off the house. And then of course, they got the the new BMW or Porsche or fill in the blank and then they married and kids. And then before you know it, you're working to support a lifestyle. And now you're caught in the rat race of high earning and burnout happens there. Do you see that happen with your doctor friends?

Doctor Mike (00:06:39) - I do a lot. And and it kind of sneaks up on them, you know, and and you you want to send your kids to a good school.

Doctor Mike (00:06:50) - So now they're in private school and and even then this is what I've seen with a lot of young docs. They've got young kids. Once their kids start in private school, then you know the car that they were okay with. Now isn't good enough because when they're picking their kids up, they're feeling like they're the poor person at the school. And sometimes when you're going to school with industrialists, you can't keep up. So yeah, you get in that rat race.

Josh (00:07:16) - Yeah, for sure. And you know, we can we could all say, you know, especially for people who go to school for a long time, highly disciplined, highly disciplined, super intelligent. Right. It takes brains to get through it. But yet we could still get caught in the rat race and we could still get caught in keeping up with whoever the hell the Joneses are. Right? They have unlimited money, and we're always trying to catch up with those guys.

Doctor Mike (00:07:42) - It's so true. And I think a hard thing for doctors is when they look and we've all seen this, that the Joneses were the C students.

Josh (00:07:51) - And that's for sure.

Doctor Mike (00:07:53) - And and you hear them complain. You're like, wait, that guy in high school didn't go to school. He barely graduated. And then he went to business school and he partied and now he's killing it. And it's not right. Yeah.

Josh (00:08:10) - It's so true. But if you compare this is kind of a side note, but if you compare it to anyone, you're never going to measure up and you're not going to find happiness in there. Right. You took a different approach and you said, I've got to start figuring this out because I'm not going to do this to 70 years old. I got to stop. Start figuring this out now. And a light bulb switch. Which. Took you down a path of investing. Before you go there, what was the light bulb that went off for you that made you go? I might not do this to 70. I need to have another plan. What was that? Um.

Doctor Mike (00:08:50) - I. There had been hurdles along the way.

Doctor Mike (00:08:54) - Like this thing I want to do that kind of kept me going. Yeah, I think I came. I went to medical school later, so I don't know if I was your average. I didn't dream to be a doctor my whole life. And. And there was this, Oh, I want to be this good of a surgeon. I want to. And so there was this series of events where I realized I was doing all the big cases and was as good as most everybody else at all the cool things. And then some of the the other things that made you feel like you had had reached it, you know, bought my wife a Mercedes, and then it was just really expensive to maintain and didn't take the kids to school any better. Yeah. And we bought the big house. Luckily not a super big house, but then you're like, okay, I've got all the things that have kind of been on the checklist and. All the drive was gone. And kind of about the same time my kids got to middle school.

Doctor Mike (00:09:56) - So I think when my kids were little, that was a lot of my joy would leave work. And I had these two amazing little people who loved to see me come home and and we had so much fun. And then all of a sudden they're gone and they're like, Whatever, Dad, I'm going to my friend's house. And so, like, a lot of, like, my work motivations went away. My my family distraction went away. And I and I had to kind of rethink things. Um, and it really there was I think there was this burnout underneath, but there was this drive pushing through it. And all of this was right around when I turned 50. And so I remember sitting down and going. 50th birthday. And I'm like, this stinks. You know? And you're like, well, wait a minute. Let's put a new twist on it. I'm going to make this decade the best of my life. I was like, Well, I had a lot of fun in my 20s.

Doctor Mike (00:10:48) - This is a big ass.

Josh (00:10:49) - Yeah, that's crazy, right?

Doctor Mike (00:10:51) - So I started digging in and through that actually, um, got into a bunch of personal development stuff and hired a coach. And, and it was really when I got in there that it was like peeling back the, the layers of the onion. That was like, I really don't like this. I've had these things that I've kind of justified. So then with the coach actually has already worked backwards and said, What's your ideal lifestyle? You know, what do you want to do every day? How do you want to get up? Where do you want to? Where do you want to travel? Do you want to be in one place? Where do you want to live? And so as we worked backwards from that, it became more and more clear that being tied to a 60 plus hour a week surgical practice was not leading down to the road to my ideal lifestyle.

Josh (00:11:46) - Yeah, man. So for you, it was a family.

Josh (00:11:51) - It was orientated around family, right? When they're young and, you know, you're, you're, you're working to build a family. It's exciting. There's energy. And then when the kids start going to middle school and and start leaving, you're like, you're kind of left with your own self and your wife and your your own thoughts. Right? And now 50 happens. That's a turning point for a lot of men.

Doctor Mike (00:12:13) - It really is. And now that I've heard more people talk about it, for some it's 40. We didn't have kids until we were older. So, you know, if you had kids younger, it may be 40 where it hits you, but it does. And maybe that's that midlife crisis. Your purpose kind of goes away or changes and you're like, What? What am I doing?

Josh (00:12:31) - Yeah, see that? That happens, I think. And maybe I'll have you back on our show for men. We have a show that we talk about identity and purpose and mission.

Josh (00:12:41) - And it's it's one of my favorite things to talk about in this world. But this is the deal. Scout But behind every deal maker, there's a story and I like to get to the bottom line. What drives deal makers and how what creates a good deal maker. So I have to peel back some of that. But you said something that I haven't seen a lot of doctors do, especially when you get to the level of surgeon and, you know, specialist, right? You hired a coach, you didn't like things were going you hired a coach rather than go buy a yacht, go buy another house, beach house playing, fill in the blank or chase. Whatever. What made you think to do that? Because that's a big step.

Doctor Mike (00:13:23) - You know, it it was little steps that got me there. It was actually when when I was in college, one of the things I did was race bikes. And I was never very good at it, but I really enjoyed it. And so as part of this transition, I'm like, okay, I'm going to get in shape.

Doctor Mike (00:13:41) - I'm, you know, and, and I started when I was in college. I always wanted to race cyclocross, but it's, you know, like in the winter and the mud and I could barely afford to keep my bike going for the road season. I'm like, the last thing I need to do is take it out and destroy it in the mud. So I started racing cyclocross and I thought I was going to be pretty cool and I just got thrashed. So I'm like, All right, I got to do something different here. I'm hating this. I got to be better than that. So I started with started going to the gym and was like, I'm going to get hurt. I haven't been in the gym in 30 years. And so I hired a personal trainer and lo and behold, two months later, I won a race. And I was, you know, and this is I mean, this is like master's cat four. So it was, you know, beat the old slow guys and sorry to any old slow guys out there, but you we all know where we're at the in the pecking order of the world.

Doctor Mike (00:14:36) - So so the next summer I'm like, wow okay I want to be even better. So then I hired a cycling coach and and all my numbers went through the roof and all. So had, you know, success I'd never had before as a cyclist. Now it's a lot of the really fast guys had quit racing, so maybe it was just the endurance that I was still out there. Yeah, you just lasted longer.

Josh (00:15:02) - You stuck in the game longer than they did.

Doctor Mike (00:15:04) - So. So but it was that where I looked and when I was trying to make these changes, I started reading different books and realizing how much my mindset was holding me back. And that's when I said, Well, wait, these other coaches just leapt forward in ways I never would have on my own. Let's give this coaching thing a try. Were before I wouldn't have. I would have been like, Oh yeah, these, you know, would have downplayed it all. But that's really what led me there is the little baby steps.

Josh (00:15:38) - Yeah. Now in the green room prior when you were learning to pronounce the word in my in my waiting room, you said. You said that there's one thing that you really want people to hear, and especially to your, your fellow doctor. Pierce Right. There's there's a mindset. There's a belief system being a doctor and and it it holds a lot of people back. Will you share that with us?

Doctor Mike (00:16:05) - Well, yeah. As a doctor, you spend so many years training and going to school and learning to do things just right and becoming an expert. And maybe the contrast is that we touched on before the C student who's now the CEO, that they went through a process of they failed test. They did good enough to pass. And so they a lot of people who didn't just excel in school develop, whether it's grit or just being used to figuring things out and failing that, they work through those things and it actually opens doors later on. Whereas a doctor you you know, you were a students in school and, you know, in college and then you went to medical school and then residency.

Doctor Mike (00:16:53) - And the whole focus is being an expert in doing things right. And when you get into an uncomfortable place, it's really uncomfortable. And so when I started learning about real estate, it was a slow process of getting through the emotion of I don't know what I'm doing. And then you'd learn something and then you'd realize how much you still don't know and that I'll never be able to do this. And and as I've talked to other docs, now that I'm doing it, it's there's a real it pushes a button and I can kind of see their expression change the moment that that discomfort sets in and they almost just check out. I had one doc, it was this really cool conversation. And then they just instantly like turned a corner and went, Well, I'm happy with my 401. K Yeah, conversation over. And it hit me. I was like. Wow. Like that just it hit a like a run to the safe place. And it was just done. It was too much.

Josh (00:18:02) - Yeah.

Josh (00:18:03) - You know. We describe this as a deal maker. You know, we look at different types of investments. And I want to hear your your foray into investing. But we get this, you know, into comfort level. I know I'm making this much. I know I'm spending this much. Maybe if there's a little bit. But, you know, I'm comfortable with someone and you even said it with the administration that comes in, they're like, let's go from private practice to group practice. They're going to take care of my future. The 401. K, they're going to take care of it. I'm going to get Social Security that's going to take care of my future, Right? So we we put our future in a lot of different people's hands. And it's comfortable because we can focus on what we're doing. You started taking your future into your own hands. You hired a coach and you found out through some coaching that you needed. You wanted to move in a different direction. Walk us through like some of the things that you learned and stepping out of your comfort zone into investing.

Josh (00:19:02) - What did that look like?

Doctor Mike (00:19:04) - It you know, so originally was the how are you spending your money? And we had looked for years at buying a second home or in Green Bay, Wisconsin and wanted a place actually where I'm at now in Marquette, Michigan, up on the shores of beautiful Lake Superior. Um, beautiful. But when we came down to it, it was during Covid actually, when it's like, you know, we're not we were going on these great vacations every year and then all of a sudden all that was over. And it's like going into the second year was like, We're not going anywhere this year. Still, this is it's time. Let's buy the place up there so we have a place to get away to. And as I started looking, we looked at several places and I'm going, Wow, should I put this money? Should I invest it? I wanted to, you know, and we were more looking like, well, maybe a second home and we can do it as an STR, you know, And and that would be good.

Doctor Mike (00:20:01) - That's a better use of our money. And then this fourplex dropped on the market on a cool location. And and I, you know, having been through this process of. Trying to rethink where I put my money and the control and how it could grow. I knew this was something I wanted to do. I was scared because. We had tried rent a once before, bought a, you know, moved and kept a house and rented it. Total disaster. And the landlord thing was a disaster. And but through the coaching was like, guess what? You're going to do something new, you're going to be bad at it and you're going to fail and you're going to figure it out. And so that's the way I went into managing this was I'm going to be bad at it. I'm going to figure it out. And then got the plan like, okay, then we're going to scale. But I want to know what's going on with the property management before we start handing off to property managers.

Josh (00:21:06) - Yeah. So you, you know, the fourplex brilliant move, right? You know, and you were doing short term rentals. STR Right. Or checking that.

Doctor Mike (00:21:15) - Out. We actually ended up in and you know, a lot of cities have now put the kibosh on short term rentals is the city put a limit on the number of short term rentals and they issued licenses and a limited number. And everybody who is at least in the know at all grabbed one even if they never planned on renting it just in case they wanted it in the future. So we've been on the license waitlist for almost three years and think we've moved up like two spots. Okay.

Josh (00:21:49) - So no.

Doctor Mike (00:21:49) - STR.

Josh (00:21:50) - No. So that part.

Doctor Mike (00:21:51) - Of the plan didn't work out. So that was part of, again, like it got this great plan in surgery. If our plan had gone that sideways, it would have been a bad outcome, right? That you can go and you can learn. Yeah.

Josh (00:22:06) - Well, what I love about this and I think we all get it right because, you know, anybody with kids or anybody, you know, adults listening in, we knew when we started fill in the Blank, anything.

Josh (00:22:17) - We sucked at it. We were terrible at it. But over time, we got better. But we reached this level of good in your job, right? I'm pretty darn good at Fill in the blank and then we don't want to step back to bad at anything.

Doctor Mike (00:22:31) - Right? Yes. And that was part of the one of the things with the coach that it was. We talked about being comfort and comfort or caged and the two things that help that keep you from moving out of there are you feel stuck and you can't see a way out that's the caged and or you're just comfortable and you don't want to let go of the comfort and you kind of bounce back and forth between those two sometimes. Yeah. And it leads to inaction. And then as a doctor, then, you know, if you're trying to escape, often you end up in the analysis paralysis where you keep. That's pretty good. But what am I missing? And you never you never jump in. Yeah.

Josh (00:23:14) - So you got into this this first kind of real estate investment, but since then, you've been able to get to the place where you've got, you know, part time doctor.

Josh (00:23:24) - You could kind of go in and. But you've built up income somewhere. What did that look like? How did you do it?

Doctor Mike (00:23:31) - So, you know, I'd have to say at this point, I'm happy that as we tried to build our small residential multifamily empire, my whole plan prices were running up and nothing penciled out. Yeah. And people kept buying stuff. And I'm like, What am I doing the numbers wrong like this? This duplex sold for, you know, $75,000 more than I could pencil it to make it worth my time. And, you know, and then you realize people are just banking on appreciation and that you're really competing with retail investors. And I'm a retail investor, too. So it it it was a more difficult space. So then in looking for other options, I ended up moving to investing passively in syndications to, to moving that leverage like, okay, let's go with some pros and now how do we get above the retail investor. And so that was a few years of that but I still.

Doctor Mike (00:24:35) - Was not going fast enough. I still needed to make the money to invest to get to job optional. So we weren't getting there and we started looking at the idea of, okay, how do I think bigger, bigger apartment buildings? Now you start looking at syndication models and all of that. And again, up until when interest rates went up, that whole multifamily space also was highly competitive for sure. And and now I'm so happy that that happened because that pushed me into looking at other asset classes and into retail and industrial.

Josh (00:25:18) - Man super cool. You know I'm a huge fan of of industrial right I think that that's going to be the future and you know that's the direction we spend a lot of time, you know, exploring. You chose retail kind of like paint a picture for your retail hypothesis and industrial hypothesis.

Doctor Mike (00:25:40) - Um, you know, again and coming back and it really, you know, the book who knows how. And it just it it rings so true. And for years I didn't read it because I'm like, well, I understand that you need the right people.

Doctor Mike (00:25:54) - And then when I finally read it, it was like this. Oh, no, it's not just it's that is it. You know, don't if you're, if you don't know something. What you could spend a year learning. You could find a week finding the right person and it's done. Yeah. And then another week and it's done. And in a year you're 52 steps up the the ladder instead of one. And, and that was really when I took that to heart. So it was, okay, let me find the right people and then actually joined a mastermind in that space. And so they're experienced people in both spaces, which the great thing is, is now having a group that I can find deals and, and, and bring it to highly seasoned people and rip them apart. And is this as good as it looks? Yeah. And and and that was what really gave me the confidence to say, okay, now I can be work optional. I've got the network to do what I want to do and do it successfully.

Doctor Mike (00:27:05) - It's just me having the time and the guts to do it. The guts to do it.

Josh (00:27:09) - Yeah.

Josh (00:27:10) - So now when you find yourself back with a scalpel in hand, back at the job, is it a different experience for you now that you're you're learning a new skill set, you're failing over here, You're figuring it out like the way your brain works. You're like, I'm going to be really good at this. So you're like it. There's something happening in your mind over here. Growth mindset happens. How is it affecting your other job?

Doctor Mike (00:27:32) - Uh, to be honest, in a lot of ways, it makes the pain points more painful. Ooh, the things you can't change. Um, and so some of them I've been able to let go. Other ones just hurt even more. Um. The sum of the risk of doing surgery. Like you can't do a lot of surgery without complications. It's just part of the game. It's just like you can't do real estate without having a bad deal or something that takes a bunch of work to fix.

Doctor Mike (00:28:07) - Yeah. And when. When there was no way out. Complications are part of the game is one of my early mentors told me they're like, man, it's a full contact sport. And you're like, Yeah, that's the way I feel. I feel like I just got knocked out. And so those types of complications hurt more. And you're like, I don't know if I want to do this. And so it has affected what I want to do. And so I've turned over a lot of higher risk, more complex cases to my partners. Yeah. And and it's also some of the big stuff is the fun stuff. And so they haven't really they've been they're like, you don't want to do those anymore. And they're like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh (00:28:50) - Well, what you're, what you're describing is choice and options. You have created choice and options. There's a lot of doctors, high earners, professionals spent their life becoming that, but they have no choice in options because that is their only thing, their only whatever.

Josh (00:29:08) - Because the 401. Doesn't kick in until they're 65. So they got another 15 years of grind before they can access that or whatever. Fill in the blank, right? Yep. But you have options.

Doctor Mike (00:29:20) - Yeah. And it's and that is liberating. And it's been interesting talking now that I have those options, talking to some of my peers. And one of my current partners was interested was funny. He's like, when I told him I was cutting back and moving towards being done, he was like, You're not having fun anymore. I'm like, No. And he's like, Oh, I still have a lot of fun. And he still loves it. But but now that this is really kicking in for me, yeah, he's even asked like, Well, what are these deals you have going? What? What is that? Because he has some other things going on the outside and he's like, oh, so there are a lot of doctors who are interested. But I think the holdback is, is knowledge and trust.

Doctor Mike (00:30:11) - And the trust thing is, you know, I got my first call from a stockbroker, you know, like random cold call, like the week after I graduated from medical school. They got some list from somewhere. Yeah. And he thinks he's, you know, I'm like, Dude, do you understand? Like, I'm. I'm a week out from starting my internship where I'm going to make, like, half of minimum wage, but it's legal, you know, I'm going to work 120 hours a week for $23,000 a year. I'm not the golden cow you're looking for. So but you start seeing that where you feel like everybody, you know, you have work done on your house and you get the doctor price we always called it, you know, And so you develop this distrust of everybody. And so it makes it hard to go into a new investing thing because you feel like somebody sees you as somebody who is an easy, an easy mark. And so it's really trying to find people who you trust.

Doctor Mike (00:31:19) - Yeah.

Josh (00:31:20) - Yeah. It's the doctor's dilemma. You make a lot more, right? You know, you start earning, potential goes up and you can work more cases. You take on more complicated cases. Right. So the earning potential. But. You get to this point where everything just starts costing a lot more anyways?

Doctor Mike (00:31:40) - Yeah.

Josh (00:31:41) - Geez, that's crazy. I never. I'm not a doctor, so I haven't thought of that. So you started investing in retail and industrial. This is why I like industrial is I think with the future of Amazon and shipping and manufacturing and all this stuff like industrial supply, they need a place to do it. And I just think that that's going to grow more and more. I might be wrong. I'm curious, all the listeners out there, like what is your favorite asset class in, you know, in commercial real estate to invest in? And I'd love to know why and maybe have you guys come on the show and talk about it. But, you know, back to you, Doctor, is as we as you go through this, what does what does a five year win look like for you? You know, you turn 50 not too long.

Josh (00:32:28) - How long ago was that? I'm going to ask you, how old?

Doctor Mike (00:32:30) - Four years ago.

Josh (00:32:31) - Okay, cool. All right. So you and I were going to chat when you turn 60, right? We're hanging out together and we look back and you're like, Man, we accomplished a lot together. You know, what is a what's a six year goal for you where you're like, man, if I could get there. My wife and I will be very happy.

Doctor Mike (00:32:49) - Um, you know, to go out six year goal is more that ideal lifestyle that we will spend months, a year traveling overseas and that we can go when we need to, that we have money to. If our kids want to start a business, we can be their angel investor and have the the network to to help them also, not just me. That's a big thing that as I've gone down this road and building that network and the amazing people, you know, like didn't even know this stuff, you know, was too stuck being an A student when I was 20 years old.

Doctor Mike (00:33:33) - Yeah. So really, that's the bigger picture. So where does that lead into? Um, you know, there are certain numbers you put out there. One of the numbers in my mind is, you know, a $10 million net worth y because you can take some pretty big hits without it affecting your lifestyle at that point. Yeah. You know, if you can lose $1 million and not go to bed and not worry about it, that that would that's that's one of the goals. And so then then deals aren't as stressful because you you can you can do some misses and it's okay.

Josh (00:34:15) - Yeah yeah. No super cool. So as you're moving along right working optional you're you're building this out you're, you're doing retail and industrial and you're investing in and deals side by side with people. You hired a coach, you've been a part of a mastermind. Like you're going through the the right steps or the smart steps. Right you're doing it with and through other people, just like if I need surgery on my, you know, urology reproductive parts, I would go to a guy like you who's done it a thousand times and say, Hey, what's going on with this thing right? Versus, you know, like we're going out into the world of investments looking for that.

Josh (00:34:52) - So I really want to honor you and I think you're doing the right your right move. So what kind of deals are you looking for? What kind of opportunities should people come chat with you about?

Doctor Mike (00:35:02) - Um, things I'm excited about right now are neighborhood retail. Okay. Um, especially in areas where there's not room for expansion and in neighborhoods that don't want a bunch of building because people more so and more, more and more so are not wanting to drive as far to get stuff. And so there's a big moat for competition for these small neighborhood retail centers because people, businesses want to be in there and there's not a lot of competition for them. So those I love.

Josh (00:35:44) - Yeah.

Doctor Mike (00:35:45) - Um, versus the big I used to love the sexy class A you know, you know, next to the mall with all the shiny big name businesses though a lot more competition there and a lot lower cab rates. Neighborhood retail is awesome that inflects space you know as you're saying the the the the big industrial warehouse is a little feels a little bit of a reach for me right now and you get in with some really big players there but the the last leg delivery the smaller flex warehouse or even down to the almost expanded self storage where it's the the contractor garage, you know, 10,000ft².

Doctor Mike (00:36:33) - So that that 10,000 to 100,000 is a. Is a pretty cool space too.

Josh (00:36:41) - Yeah.

Josh (00:36:42) - We're working on a flex space deal and it's super cool, man. You have options. I think I think options are are what I love, right? Just in case A, this isn't work. We could try this. We could try this. You know, there's options.

Doctor Mike (00:36:58) - Yeah. The number of things that can go in flex space. That's why it's flex space.

Josh (00:37:02) - That's why it's place. Place. So, Dr. Mike, where could people go to connect with you and maybe do a deal?

Doctor Mike (00:37:09) - Uh, probably these. So you can get a hold of me on LinkedIn. Cool. Um, the we have a podcast surgeon syndicate that's really aimed at, um, probably people that are a few steps behind your average listener that really trying to get into the space. And it's really talking to docs who, you know, asking questions about questions I asked. Yeah. Um, to try and get that information out.

Doctor Mike (00:37:40) - So through the, the podcast, the website there is Surgeon syndicate. Com or our private equity company is called Fortress Capital or the Fortress Capital website. That's in the process. I got to leave it to the tech guys because it's really outside of my strength there. That who not how, right? Yeah. It's being redone and I it's going to be completely changed over soon, but I'm not sure where that's at. Cool.

Josh (00:38:11) - So and that's your, your private equity. So you got your podcast. So for all you people out there who are interested in the space and interested in hearing a from a surgeon's perspective and, and talking with other doctors surgeon Syndicate that's your podcast. So check them out, listen in to an episode or two, download it, give them a raving review. And then the Fortress capital is the private equity group that that you guys are looking at doing these types of investments with and through. Is that correct? Yes. Very cool. What's the question? I should have asked you that.

Josh (00:38:43) - Maybe I screwed up and did not ask you.

Josh (00:38:46) - Um.

Doctor Mike (00:38:48) - Well, you got a lot of we got to the really the doctors and why they don't the neighborhood retail you know probably the biggest one is what's been the biggest change for me is medical school and residency. It's this highly competitive process. And although deals can be competitive to get in real estate, the thing I've found is it changes. And for the doctor mindset, this is awesome that the helping others and when I went to this mindset of all right what do I have to offer? Because when I really wanted to get in the room with people who could help me take the next step. And when somebody told me, they're like, you got to find out what you what what what is your value to them? And then you start offering value to everybody around you. And opportunity just comes rolling in that you never expected. And coming from people you never expected that it would come from. And it's almost like you start trying out give what's being given back and sometimes it's hard.

Josh (00:40:01) - Yeah, that's such a cool place to be because you go from a place of a very highly competitive spot, right, to a place of within masterminds. And within this world of syndication, it's like, Hey man, how could I how could I bless you? How could I help you? Let me open up the door for you. Hey, this investors might might not be a good fit for us, but, you know, here you go. And this, this world of like, giving and supported and listen up. It's it's really it's really bizarre. But I love it, right?

Doctor Mike (00:40:29) - It is. I mean, even yesterday I called a guy to look at a strip center deal that was from somebody that I that I had just met and had on the show. But he's a strip center guy and said, would you look at this deal? He's looking for me to help him raise some capital. Want an expert opinion on it? What came out of that was he's like, Hey, this broker I work with just sent me a deal.

Doctor Mike (00:40:59) - It's smaller than I want to do. Let me send it to you. I would love to take care of my broker and get his deal sold for him if it's something you're interested in. So it's one of the better deals I've had laid in my lap and it's just becomes this like. Back and forth, you know, and our relationship started that he needed to close out a syndication and had a little bit of space. And my sister in law called me and was like, You're doing commercial real estate. I want to do some of that. Strip malls, Those are awesome. So I put her in the deal. No, you know, just straight up. Good for you. Good for him. And now we got this great relationship. And so it's been pretty cool.

Josh (00:41:44) - Yeah.

Josh (00:41:45) - So what we'll do is we'll put your. Thank you for sharing that, man. That is that is really neat. It is such a cool world where you can work with people and you're actually trying to help other people.

Josh (00:41:56) - You still want to make money. You still want to have a bright future. We still want to celebrate your 60th birthday and, you know, come back here in six years and chat about it. But, you know, doing it together is really valuable and it's fun. Like I was just telling my C he's like a co CFO yesterday. It's fun to work with a team. It's fun to work with other people headed in the right direction. So and Dr. Mike, I really appreciate you coming on the show, really appreciate, you know, inspiring me and in my audience about what you're working on. Fellow audience members and listeners, fellow dealmakers, reach out to our guests. Say thank you for being on the show, sharing their knowledge, their contact information will be in the show notes so you can connect with them on LinkedIn and and say, Hey, I heard you on the show and maybe we can do a deal together or work together on something. That's the mission and purpose of what we do here.

Josh (00:42:45) - Put deals and dealmakers together. I hope you guys are having an awesome day. And as always, you could head over to the deal. Scout, fill out a quick form if you want to come on the show, or maybe if you are looking at doing some acquisitions or if you need some help with the financing side of things, I would love to take a look at a deal with you. So once again, that's the deal. Scout Fill out a quick form and we'll chat then. So then hope you guys are having an amazing day. See you on the next episode. Bye, everybody.